Healing Trinket Selection - Page 15

Redken · 09/17/07, 8:01 PM

Wow that Eye of the Dead trinket is so amazing. Like a couple have said, that'd be insane for a rolling lifebloom druid!

I'm currently using Earring of Soulful Meditation and the Scarab. I also have a Warp-Scarab Brooch that I use instead of the Scarab for a fight where I need more regen (fully raid buffed with that trinket puts me at 605 non-casting regen!). I want the Bangle trinket, but I haven't taken the time to grab a Botanica group. When I was looking into the Bangle trinket more, however, I was sad to see that the proc had a hidden cooldown.

At least that is what I read on wowhead.

Pretty much with my Earring+Scarab set up, any time that I can get a peaceful break in casting I will pop the trinket for some o5sr regen time. =D I will also use it when I get a Clearcasting. I'll send in my shadowfiend (if it's needed), pop the earring, cast a spell, inner focus, then keep casting. Awesome regen time ^_^

Ailetha · 09/21/07, 12:13 PM

I wanted to figure out which trinket gave me more; Eye of Gruul or Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon. I did a comparison over the last two/three nights and wanted to share my findings. I have 803 Spirit when fully raid buffed and used a regen rate of 500mp5 while not casting; I have a tad more than that but rounded it down for easy math. Full kills used only.

Eye of Gruul Proc Calculations from 9/19 WWS parse:

Fathom Lord Karathress - 11 minutes, 5 procs = 2250; 204/minute or 17mp5
The Lurker Below - 10 minutes, 5 procs = 2250; 225/minute or 18.75mp5.

tack on a +44 healing passive ability - here are the effects of adding +44 healing:

a 435 Regrowth tick would be 441.
a 887 Rejuvenation tick would be 901.
a 217 Lifebloom stack of 1 would be 222.
a 652 Lifebloom stack of 3 would be 665.
a 1501 Lifebloom bloom would be 1522.

Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon Proc Calculations from 9/20 WWS Parse:

Alar - 17 minutes, 4 procs = 6000 = 352.94/minute = 29.41 mp5
Gruul - 7 minutes, 1 proc = 1500 =214.28/minute =17.85 mp5
Void Reaver - 5 minutes, 2 procs = 3000 = 600/minute =50 mp5.
Maulgar - 4 minutes, 3 procs = 4500 = 1125/minute = 93.75 mp5

Alchemist Stone/Mana Potion 'Proc' Calculations from both WWS parses:

Alar - 17 minutes, 17,655 mana from SMPs = 1038.53/minute = 86.54 mp5
Karathress - 11 minutes, 9227 mana from SMPs = 838.82/minute = 69.9 mp5
Lurker - 10 minutes, 7113 mana from SMPs = 711.3/minute = 59.275 mp5
Void Reaver - 5 minutes, 4165 mana from SMPs = 833/minute = 69.41 mp5

These results would turn out totally different depending on class, spec, and itemization though.

Cyning · 09/22/07, 12:45 AM

Good stuff - it makes sense that with the proc rate on Blue Dragon being as low as it is, you're going to see some wildly varying mp5 numbers.

One question, though - are you taking into consideration that some of the mana return from using a mana potion with Alchemist Stone equipped is not attributable to the trinket? Your final calculations for mp5 from the Stone appear to be a little higher than I expected.

Mags · 09/22/07, 4:35 PM

Ailetha, did you base your Alchemist Stone calculations on the 40% extra mana you gained from the stone, or on the total amount of mana you got from Super Mana Potions during the fights?

If my math is correct, the upper limit of effectiveness for the Alchemist Stone is 50 mp5: 40% of 3000 = 1200 mana, or 600 mana per minute assuming you consume a SMP every single cooldown. (The lower limit is 30 mp5, providing that you are using a pot every 2 minutes).

Certainly nothing to sneeze at, but WWS parse results could also be skewed by the nature of the fight. I rarely need a mana pot during the 7 or 8 minutes of Al'ar phase 1, but then in Phase 2, I'm chugging them like water. The nice thing about the Alchemist's Stone is that its at its most effective in the fights where you need it most (ie the fights where you use pots frequently), and the passive effect is more "reliable" than random procs.

ThePalla · 09/22/07, 5:12 PM

Hi fellow TCérs

Im wondering how good this trinket [Sextant of Unstable Currents] is for Paladins (Holy).

Woot you might think. Thats a Spelldamage trinket !! And yes it is.

But i heard that a Paladin looted it cause he said it was imba so i started to think about it.

So i started todo some TC and im wondering if my values are right so plz help me.

First the 40 Spell crit rating: It translate to 1.82 % crit.
My base heal is around 4000 in heal, making my crit heal go to 6000. So basically crit gives 2000 extra healing.
2000 x 0.0182 = 36.4
So totaly 40 crit rating gives +36.4 healing.

Now to the Specific Paladins things that make this trinket really good

Every crit a Paladin does gives back 60% of the base cost of the spell.
Holy light Rank 11 costs 840 mana so 60% of that is 504.

so the math should be 504 x 0.182 = 9.2 mana / cast
And you can cast holy light every 2 secs so thats 4.6 mana per 1 sec. If we rephrase it to WoW terms it should be 23 Mana / 5 sec

And last we look at the Procc it self:

Formula for sextant is 190*15/(45+(2T/C)) where T is cast time and C is crit. Put in the values (2 sec cast 30% crit) and you get 48

So if all this is right [Sextant of Unstable Currents] for Paladins get this values:
23 Mana / 5 sec
+84.4 healing

Correct me if im wrong here.

To add to this the +84.4 healing also shows the true value. Cause Holy Light is a 2.5 sec cast time it will get only 71.84% of the +healing on items. But crit is always same value regardless how long the spell cast is.

So is there any better trinkets for Paladins out there ?

Nuke · 09/23/07, 8:02 AM

Originally Posted by ThePalla

Hi fellow TCérs

Im wondering how good this trinket [Sextant of Unstable Currents] is for Paladins (Holy).

Woot you might think. Thats a Spelldamage trinket !! And yes it is.

But i heard that a Paladin looted it cause he said it was imba so i started to think about it.

So i started todo some TC and im wondering if my values are right so plz help me.

First the 40 Spell crit rating: It translate to 1.82 % crit.
My base heal is around 4000 in heal, making my crit heal go to 6000. So basically crit gives 2000 extra healing.
2000 x 0.0182 = 36.4
So totaly 40 crit rating gives +36.4 healing.

Now to the Specific Paladins things that make this trinket really good

Every crit a Paladin does gives back 60% of the base cost of the spell.
Holy light Rank 11 costs 840 mana so 60% of that is 504.

so the math should be 504 x 0.182 = 9.2 mana / cast
And you can cast holy light every 2 secs so thats 4.6 mana per 1 sec. If we rephrase it to WoW terms it should be 23 Mana / 5 sec

And last we look at the Procc it self:

Formula for sextant is 190*15/(45+(2T/C)) where T is cast time and C is crit. Put in the values (2 sec cast 30% crit) and you get 48

So if all this is right [Sextant of Unstable Currents] for Paladins get this values:
23 Mana / 5 sec
+84.4 healing

Correct me if im wrong here.

To add to this the +84.4 healing also shows the true value. Cause Holy Light is a 2.5 sec cast time it will get only 71.84% of the +healing on items. But crit is always same value regardless how long the spell cast is.

So is there any better trinkets for Paladins out there ?

All those calculations made for R11 Holy Light. Do you use it always? Or rather you downrank it. If so - then your calculations go down drastically. Best selection of trinkets for paladin are still SoIC and probably Fel Reaver's Piston.

vorda · 09/23/07, 4:19 PM

I rate Fel Reaver's lower then LCPB.

What is SoIC?

Pompeii · 09/23/07, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by vorda

I rate Fel Reaver's lower then LCPB.

What is SoIC?

[Scarab of the Infinite Cycle]

Ngita · 09/23/07, 8:36 PM

Originally Posted by ThePalla

So is there any better trinkets for Paladins out there ?

I am afraid you lost me when you went from +36.1 healing equated to 23 mp 5. A quick calculation for me showed its close to to rejuv gem which I tend to use as my baseline.

But I find when doing calculations start with your own wws of a hard fight and your own raid buffed stats at that time. Assumptions based on max rank heal tend not to work.

Bloodwood · 09/23/07, 9:16 PM

So yeah, I'm really liking Mana Scarab Brooch and Essence Focuser for a lifebloom stacking druid. Other then Eye of the Dead, is there anything better for lifebloom stacking?

vorda · 09/23/07, 9:27 PM

Originally Posted by Pompeii

[Scarab of the Infinite Cycle]

I dropped that one the second I got Pendant. Spell haste just isnt that usefull for paladins.

ThePalla · 09/24/07, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ngita

I am afraid you lost me when you went from +36.1 healing equated to 23 mp 5. A quick calculation for me showed its close to to rejuv gem which I tend to use as my baseline.

But I find when doing calculations start with your own wws of a hard fight and your own raid buffed stats at that time. Assumptions based on max rank heal tend not to work.

THE +36.4 is what the 40 critrating heals for at each cast and the 23 / 5 mana is what its gives for Paladins regarding mana back on crits. So its not 36.1 = 23/5. Paladins get both 36.4 + heal and 23/5 mana (when casting Holy Light 11)

Ailetha · 09/24/07, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Cyning

Good stuff - it makes sense that with the proc rate on Blue Dragon being as low as it is, you're going to see some wildly varying mp5 numbers.

One question, though - are you taking into consideration that some of the mana return from using a mana potion with Alchemist Stone equipped is not attributable to the trinket? Your final calculations for mp5 from the Stone appear to be a little higher than I expected.

(The following quote is for reference later on in this post so you don't have to scroll back.)

Originally Posted by Ailetha

Alchemist Stone/Mana Potion 'Proc' Calculations from both WWS parses:

Alar - 17 minutes, 17,655 mana from SMPs = 1038.53/minute = 86.54 mp5
Karathress - 11 minutes, 9227 mana from SMPs = 838.82/minute = 69.9 mp5
Lurker - 10 minutes, 7113 mana from SMPs = 711.3/minute = 59.275 mp5
Void Reaver - 5 minutes, 4165 mana from SMPs = 833/minute = 69.41 mp5

Yes, from the total amount; since I can't really separate one from the other, due to tracking inability from WWS and to each pot procc'ing for random amounts.

I could though, I think, use the pots WITHOUT the stone for a night on identical fights and do those calculations; then I could compare to see how much is gained from the Alchemist's Stone. But for now; all I could use from WWS was totals, which includes that from and not from the Alc Stone.

EDIT: To figure out the 40% benefit, I used these formulas. Let me know if it is wrong or seems off.

1x = the amount of mp5 gained from the pot by itself
0.4x = the amount of mp5 gained from the additional 40% provided by the AS.
benefit of stone = original mp5 calc - x.

Alar - 1x+.4x = 86.54
1.4x = 86.54
x = 61.81
benefit of stone = 24.73 mp5

Karathress - 1x+.4x = 69.9
1.4x = 69.9
x = 49.93
benefit of stone = 19.97 mp5

Lurker - 1x+.4x = 59.275
1.4x = 59.275
x = 42.34
benefit of stone = 16.935 mp5

Void Reaver - 1x+.4x = 69.41
1.4x = 69.41
x = 49.58
benefit of stone = 19.83 mp5

So, if I did the math right, that is the direct benefit/addition of wearing the Alchemist Stone.

As for the other trinket, I'm very happy with the Blue Dragon card; the mp5 I gain from it is well worth the sacrifice of +44 healing. However, I would say that anyone who doesn't have a high OOC regen rate probably wouldn't benefit from it as much.

It is really quite disappointing though that a pre-BC trinket available outside of raiding is better than a level 70 trinket acquired only from a 25-man.

I get more out of BD, I *think* because I have so much spirit, although I could be wrong. What makes it so nice is the scaling. EOG doesn't scale; it's straight up 450.

Mags · 09/24/07, 4:54 PM

Those numbers seem about right for the Alchemist's Stone, with the caveat that its subject to a fair bit of variation depending on how much mana you get from each potion, and how often you need to use a pot in a given fight.

I'm using the Blue Dragon / Earring of Soulful Meditation combo myself, but I might get round to making an Alchemist's Stone one of these days.

Ailetha · 09/24/07, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mags

Those numbers seem about right for the Alchemist's Stone, with the caveat that its subject to a fair bit of variation depending on how much mana you get from each potion, and how often you need to use a pot in a given fight.

I'm using the Blue Dragon / Earring of Soulful Meditation combo myself, but I might get round to making an Alchemist's Stone one of these days.

Ya, agreed; if you really wanted a static amount you could probably sub in Fel Manas for Super Manas, but those are really only beneficial after 5 mins or so into the fight. (Well, for resto druids anyway; I can't speak for the other classes). The good thing about those is that if you are stacking +healing AND using an Alchemist's Stone, the extra mana very much more than makes up for it after about 4-5 minutes into a fight. In addition, after the first four-five minutes in the fight; you could pretty much chain chug them with or without the Alc Stone and they'd make up for their debuff. (source including spreadsheet, formula, and explanation)

Edit: As an afterthought, any healing classes under 225-250ish mp5 (450/3 ticks = 150 plus factor in the constant +44 healing from the EOG and this would be roughly the mp5 number that they even out, I THINK although I'm not 100% on that) while NOT casting would not benefit from Blue Dragon as much as they would from the Eye of Gruul. Any classes over that amount would benefit more from Blue Dragon than Eye of Gruul, and proportionately so the higher you go, eh?

ANSeranov · 09/25/07, 3:54 PM

So I've browsed through this thread looking for information on the Bangle of Endless Blessing.

Currently I run with the Essence of the Martyr and the Lower City Prayer Book in my trinket slots, and I'm really trying to decide if it's worth running Bot a bunch for the Bangle to replace my Prayer Book. I saw some rough numbers on the Bangle a few pages back, but I didn't see anything straightforward for the Prayer Book. Should I go zerg the hell out of Bot or just sit and be patient until Lurker drops his Earring? <_<;;

vorda · 09/25/07, 4:49 PM

Prayer book is rather easy to calculate:

For me, its bound to my FoL key. I usually cast 8 spells in 15 seconds, giving me a total mana reduce of 176/min or 14.6 mp5 on average.

Aciara · 09/25/07, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bloodwood

So yeah, I'm really liking Mana Scarab Brooch and Essence Focuser for a lifebloom stacking druid. Other then Eye of the Dead, is there anything better for lifebloom stacking?

I assume you mean: [Warp-Scarab Brooch] ? If so then [Hibernation Crystal] is a bit better (as a lifebloom Druid!). Ysondre is sadly chain farmed on my server

ANSeranov · 09/25/07, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by vorda

Prayer book is rather easy to calculate:

For me, its bound to my FoL key. I usually cast 8 spells in 15 seconds, giving me a total mana reduce of 176/min or 14.6 mp5 on average.

I understand how it'd work for Paladins, but as a Priest, I cancel-cast ALOT and therefore I'm unsure how much effective regen would be for me.

I love the hell out of my Prayer Book, tho. I use it over both trinkets from Kara and I've passed on the Eye of Gruul 'cause I don't feel it'd be a big enough upgrade to spend the dkp. :x

vorda · 09/25/07, 5:15 PM

If I were a priest, I'd try to do some Renews, PoM and downranked flashheals when I use the trinket (mailny the renews I suppose). Using a slow GHeal which you might even cancel aswell would make me drop the trinket pretty quickly.

(then again, I'm no priest of course, so feel free to disagree

)

ANSeranov · 09/25/07, 5:30 PM

Using Flash Heal is akin to taking my mana and throwing it out the window. D:

I do try to renew PoM/Renew when the trinket's up, which is awesome due to the 1min cooldown, but there's never really a time where I'll be chain casting like a paladin would.

I've seen some very strong priest opinions on things like the Alchemist Stone in this thread, but no one seems to have done much math on the Bangle. It looks like it'd be great for my style of healing, but I'd like to see some math on it to see if it's worth spending a lot of time in Botanica trying to get it.

-e-

Also thanks for trying to help, Dahlia. <3

Cyning · 09/25/07, 7:18 PM

Originally Posted by ANSeranov

I've seen some very strong priest opinions on things like the Alchemist Stone in this thread, but no one seems to have done much math on the Bangle. It looks like it'd be great for my style of healing, but I'd like to see some math on it to see if it's worth spending a lot of time in Botanica trying to get it.

I fiddled around with the Bangle some a bit ago, but a huge stipulation was that I would be receiving my own Innervate and timing the use effect around it. I'd copy/paste the math but I'm not sure it would be pertinent to you, since the combination of the use effect and Innervate were responsible for the lion's share of the trinket's mana return.

If you regularly receive Innervates from a feral druid or a generous resto druid in your raids, and you're able to time it so that Innervate's duration and the Bangle's use effect duration overlap more or less perfectly, it's worth about 1500 mana extra on top of whatever the Innervate returns to you.

Assuming you never get any Innervates at all, you'd have to spend a reasonable amount of time out of the five second rule to capitalize on the Bangle's use effect. With around 350 spirit the Bangle's proc effect was giving me about 100 mana per proc, and in general procs a little less than once per minute (about five times per six minutes - around 15 times during Illidan, which takes about 19-20 minutes, I think).

If you're choosing between the Alchemist's Stone and the Bangle, base your choice on:
1. Whether you receive Innervates
2. Whether you spend time out of the five-second rule often
3. Whether you chain chug mana potions

ANSeranov · 09/25/07, 7:27 PM

I don't generally chug pots, but I have about 450 spirit raid buffed and I spend a LOT of time outside the rule during most fights. I'm a very conservative healer, and regen is my bread and butter. D:

Honestly, as long as the feral druid who raids with us isn't tanking, he'll usually toss me an innervate if I ask for it... thought usually I don't need it. I'm just trying to figure out if the extra regen while casting outweighs the mana reduction from the Prayer Book. If it does, then I can easily see myself running Bot a bunch for the trinket, as I'm starting to love Spirit more and more as I progress into 25 mans.

Kulthos · 09/30/07, 2:43 AM

I'm curious as to what trinkets I'm looking to upgrade to when given the opportunity. Earring of Soulful Meditation and Alchemist's Stone is what I'm currently using. The Alchemist's stone is great, using Fel Mana Potions (I believe that that the healing debuff of up to -X healing is pretty weak). So, should I be looking to replace the Alchemist's Stone with Fel Reaver's Piston when I'm given the opportunity?

I traded the Bangle of Endless Blessing for the Earring of Soulful Mediation, comments on this decision as well? I didn't really know what to factor the 15% regen rate proc for the Bangle. Sometimes it feels like I can do 100 casts and not get a proc, other times, it's about 1 every minute and a half for a fight.

If someone could tell me the math for the Bangle and say that it'd be better than using even the Alchemist's Stone or tell the name of a mod to help track it would be wonderful.

Originally posted by Cyning
I fiddled around with the Bangle some a bit ago, but a huge stipulation was that I would be receiving my own Innervate and timing the use effect around it. I'd copy/paste the math but I'm not sure it would be pertinent to you, since the combination of the use effect and Innervate were responsible for the lion's share of the trinket's mana return.

If you regularly receive Innervates from a feral druid or a generous resto druid in your raids, and you're able to time it so that Innervate's duration and the Bangle's use effect duration overlap more or less perfectly, it's worth about 1500 mana extra on top of whatever the Innervate returns to you.

Assuming you never get any Innervates at all, you'd have to spend a reasonable amount of time out of the five second rule to capitalize on the Bangle's use effect. With around 350 spirit the Bangle's proc effect was giving me about 100 mana per proc, and in general procs a little less than once per minute (about five times per six minutes - around 15 times during Illidan, which takes about 19-20 minutes, I think).

If you're choosing between the Alchemist's Stone and the Bangle, base your choice on:
1. Whether you receive Innervates
2. Whether you spend time out of the five-second rule often
3. Whether you chain chug mana potions

I do chug mana potions for bosses, but there are a few fights where you're able to time out a large chunk of time for the 5 second rule. Lurker returning from submerge just after clearing adds and waiting for the passing spout. Is the best example, currently right now. Most fights aren't as kind to the 5 second rule.

But yes, the math you used would be useful, if you're willing to send a private message because you don't feel like spamming the forums with it that'd be great. Or if anyone is able to reciprocate his math.

Originally posted by Ailetha
Alchemist Stone/Mana Potion 'Proc' Calculations from both WWS parses:

Alar - 17 minutes, 17,655 mana from SMPs = 1038.53/minute = 86.54 mp5
Karathress - 11 minutes, 9227 mana from SMPs = 838.82/minute = 69.9 mp5
Lurker - 10 minutes, 7113 mana from SMPs = 711.3/minute = 59.275 mp5
Void Reaver - 5 minutes, 4165 mana from SMPs = 833/minute = 69.41 mp5

I'm assuming that was a SMP? Also did you have a mod to help you in keeping track of these procs? If so that'd be helpful in me in being able to figure out what trinkets to use for certain fights. Because sometimes I like to switch in Pendant of the Violet Eye, but that tends to be more for trash with numerous AOE attacks, so I can pop that and spam renew.

Playered · 09/30/07, 9:24 AM

I dont believe anything bar Memento will come close to replacing Alchemists Stone.

Bangle is your generic 45sec cd, 15sec duration trinket.
Mine gives me 40MP5 bonus, 40/(60/15) = 10MP5 passive.

As you have the Earring I doubt theres any reason to get Bangle aswell.