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Old 11/11/07, 4:43 PM   #421
Hegen
In gear/DCT lock pin
 
Human Priest
 
Alleria (EU)
That your guild does not allow paladins to bid is probably due to the proc bonus being +dmg/heal instead of +heal, indicating it being worth more to damage dealers since a pure healer trinket would have more +heal for the same item value.

Is that a valid reason? Maybe, if healing in your raid is fine but DPS is lacking. It will also depend on whether a better alternative trinket is within reach for you.

As for comparing the trinket to alternatives: it very probably has a hidden cooldown (45s?).

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Old 11/11/07, 5:10 PM   #422
Hegen
In gear/DCT lock pin
 
Human Priest
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by galzohar View Post
What if the scarab doesn't proc on grow 15? The MT dies? That would be bad, as it will not proc more often than it'll proc...
Sometime she dies, yes. With 6 healers (4 of them priests with variable amounts of brain lag), that can always happen at growth 15 and higher, depending on cave-in, silence and kick luck. Actually, we've been up to growth 18, so it doesn't necessarily have to proc in 15 to be useful.

I agree with you that one should never rely on the Scarab to proc. Still, in that situation, I don't see which trinket would be better. I do have enough mana regeneration there, I do have enough +heal there for downranking in the earlier phases. In the high phases, I am chain-canceling, then chain-casting max-ranks. If every heal there is higher than 5000, I'm pretty sure an additional +100 heal would not keep my tank alive, though that's certainly statistically possible. Getting that 5000 HP there quicker will - sometimes - just save my tank.

What I actually considered as an alternative: using the Skyguard trinket at Gruul for more inspiration procs.

One more thing about the Scarab: it is one of only a few trinkets that scales with the rest of the equipment. And as such, I will be sure not to shard it anytime soon.

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Old 11/11/07, 7:29 PM   #423
Starfire
Honorary Toastr
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Daidalos View Post
Yes those are ideal conditions but Bloodboil,Reliquary, and Illidan phase 2 both seem to be fights where CoH spam is used hits 5 people and isn't really wasting mana. I know our holy preist spams CoH on those fights.

Even assuming only 2 CoH in 5 sec the mp5 equiv is amazing. What i'm wondering is poster said he was getting 30-40mp5 on CoH intensive fights so I am wondering if intensive doesn't mean more than 1 CoH in 5 secs or if there is somthing wrong with the theory.
Actually, I'd also like to point out it can hit pets and shadowfiends. I find it pretty ideal for Void Reaver too.

I wonder if Blizzard is going to ninja nerf this with a hidden cooldown in 2.3, has anyone tested it?

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Old 11/11/07, 7:56 PM   #424
Sikora
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackwing Lair
Originally Posted by Vurrin View Post
Long story short with no way to make the haste active when you need there is no way to rely on the trinket.
Would a viable trinket for my spec be Wushoolay's Charm of Nature from the edge of madness event?
It's has a 3 minute cooldown and the use is "Grants 400 (25.4%) spell haste rating, and reduces the mana cost of Rejuvenation, Healing Touch, Regrowth, and Tranquility by 5% for 15 sec."

My question is, would this ability to activate spell haste be good when considering my spec or should i just stick to stone + memento?

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Old 11/12/07, 12:54 AM   #425
Beans
Von Kaiser
 
Beans's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Earthen Ring
I just got the Eye of Gruul today, on a "retro" raid by my guild =P

After reading (scanning the later pages, that was a lot =P ) most of the thread, I haven't seen anyone say if Eye of Gruul has a proc per minute limit. I know there doesn't seem to be hidden cooldown, but a guildmate of mine says it has a PPM.

I've looked at several boards and I haven't seen anyone mention it, and was curious if anyone has any idea?

I'm thinking of pairing it along with either the Alchemists Stone, or the Earring of Soulful Meditation on CoH spam heavy fights.

My normal trinket selection is usually the Earring, along with Essence of the Martyr or Alchemist Stone (depending on the fight).

Thanks!

edit: It's late and I can't type.

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Old 11/12/07, 2:39 AM   #426
Vurrin
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Hyjal
to Beans - there's no limit to the times it can proc. other than internal cool downs there is no such think as a limit to the number of times an item can proc. Even PPM enchants like crusader can sometimes proc 2,3, even 4 times in quick succession. They simply have varying percent chances to activate based on factors like weapon swing speed.

Eye of Gruul has a flatly stated proc rate, and a tested lack of an internal cooldown. and it also reacts oddly with multiple target heals liek Chain ehal and CoH. So yes it is good for CoH spammy fights.

to Sikora- well, its more useful than the haste proc on Scarab imo. HOW useful however depends on several factors that i can't really answer for you. Such as how much value do you place on the 70 healing ( or other effect you'd have in that trinekt slot). How quickly you can activate and apply the haste effect and still use it effectively, and of course how much you usually cast HT.

In an ideal case I believe the trinket and say a lucky string of crits could have you landing healing touches almost as quickly as a flash heal. Certainly sounds powerful, and the mana saved isn't totally worthless either, but assume you decided you need the haste, do you cancel the current cast and click a trinket and hope that the canceled cast + haste cast time is shorter than just letting the original cast finish or Cancel cast and just NS a heal. For healers haste just doesn't really seem that good in comparison to skillful cancel casting, pre casting and that sort of thing. Also, I don't know any dreamstate druids so I don't know your casting style. Do you still roll a stack of lifeblooms then HT in between? or use longer running HoTs + HT, etc, just straight HT+ cancel casting etc etc. Anyway I think HTs long cast time is benefited by haste on like your rings and bracers, but when you could put 40 mp/5 in that trinket slot over this trinket, its hard to argue for it assuming you use a significant number of non -HT spells during any normal 15 second period, or that you cancel cast Hts regularly.

all in all I would steer away from non-permanent haste unless you can think of some situations where spell haste like this would make a big differences and only lasts 15-20 seconds long =P For example if I was a DPS class I would say "Man I'd love 25% haste and a mana discount for those damn shades in phase 4 illidan".and think of a dozen other situations where 15 seconds of haste is very good but as a healer all i can say is ... I guess its good for 1-2 fel rages or used late in phase 3 RoS, and even then it'd be tough to argue it over Essence of Martyr's own constant and burst throughput boost ( shorter cooldown, constant + healing Vs larger mana consumption and higher short term HPS)

So thats my opinion, here are some numbers which I don't find particularly useful but if they help you so much the better.

Wuushoolay's trinekt if you chain casted rank 13 HT and had a crit every single time for 15 seconds ( and started with NG up) would at best save you around 405 mana ( 965(base mana cost)x .05( trinekt discount) x (15/1.7(hasted castime) and give you again in a wildly unrealistic best case 8.9 casts ( assuming no lag as well).

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Old 11/12/07, 1:12 PM   #427
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Beans View Post
I just got the Eye of Gruul today, on a "retro" raid by my guild =P

After reading (scanning the later pages, that was a lot =P ) most of the thread, I haven't seen anyone say if Eye of Gruul has a proc per minute limit. I know there doesn't seem to be hidden cooldown, but a guildmate of mine says it has a PPM.

I've looked at several boards and I haven't seen anyone mention it, and was curious if anyone has any idea?

I'm thinking of pairing it along with either the Alchemists Stone, or the Earring of Soulful Meditation on CoH spam heavy fights.

My normal trinket selection is usually the Earring, along with Essence of the Martyr or Alchemist Stone (depending on the fight).

Thanks!

edit: It's late and I can't type.
EDIT: Seems I was wrong about PPM numbers. Anyways I have not heard of any PPM limits for this trinket. If anyone knows of any I'd like to see it.

Last edited by Daidalos : 11/12/07 at 1:48 PM.

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Old 11/12/07, 1:40 PM   #428
Fola
Piston Honda
 
Undead Priest
 
Eredar
Originally Posted by Daidalos View Post
A proc per min would mean it DOES have a cooldown.... so I think you answered your own question. If you are thinking there is some counter where you can only proc 5 a min or something there is no trinket in the game I aware of that works that way. The PPM numbers all derive from cooldown times. It has a 2% chance to proc on every heal that lands. PPM number for this trinket wouldn't make any sense considering the fact the number of procs will be determined by the number of heals that land per min. i.e. 2%.
Don't confuse Proc Per Minute (PPM) with forced internal cooldowns. For representation example (not a resto example but a very good one for explaining proc/trinket mechanics):

Dragonspine Trophy pre Nerf had no internal Cooldown with a PPM of ~1.7
Dragonspine Trophy post Nerf had an internal Cooldown with a PPM of ~1.7

The internal Cooldown that the OP is asking about is the lockout time before the PPM can once again come into play. It is a forced no proc time window commonly refered to as an internal cooldown. It appears you have some confusion over how these mechanics work in your answer to the OP.

I do not believe the referenced trinket, Eye of Gruul, has an internal cooldown.

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Old 11/12/07, 2:09 PM   #429
Sikora
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackwing Lair
Originally Posted by Vurrin View Post
Do you still roll a stack of lifeblooms then HT in between? or use longer running HoTs + HT, etc, just straight HT+ cancel casting etc etc.
I would have to say it really depends on the situation, during Gurtogg for example, I roll a stack of lifeblooms on 4 players who take the bloodboil and during fel rage's I spam Rank 13 HT. When I'm assigned to healing the main tank I usually regrowth, rejuv, and refresh when they expire. In between I will usually cast 1 lifebloom which i let "bloom". During this time I'll most likely have an HT mid cast which I use when I see the MT take burst damage. I use rank 1 regrowth on the target as a way of keeping my Nature's Grace up as often as possible. This is basically my healing style in a nutshell.

Such encounters as you had previously mentioned would really demonstrate the utility of Wushoolay's Charm of Nature. However, the constant mp5 benefit that the Alchemist's Stone provides for me still seems to be much more worthy than this trinket and it's now visibly gimmicky qualities.

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Old 11/15/07, 4:33 PM   #430
Beans
Von Kaiser
 
Beans's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Earthen Ring
Follow up: Tested the trinket (eye of gruul) in a Gurtogg fight where I spammed CoH for 6 minutes. Proc'ed 9x, so about 50 mp5. Definitely will continue using it on coh heavy fights.

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Old 11/19/07, 1:22 PM   #431
Kinien
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Khaz Modan
Whether you circle spam or just cast a ton, the Eye of Gruul trinket is very strong. With my cast style, the trinket is simply amazing.

RENEW: 7 procs on Bloodboil
WWS

CIRCLE SPAM: 12 procs on Teron
WWS

CIRCLE SPAM: 15 procs on Reliquary
WWS

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Old 11/26/07, 3:16 PM   #432
Vazeroth
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Arthas
This is sort of on topic. I have a resto druid (Jewelcrafter/Miner) who I like to use in 2v2 arena. Assuming the focus is 2v2, what trinket would give me the most benefit mana-wise.

For instance, if I have 100+ healing on a trinket, it might not seem like mp5, but it is saving me mana because I have to cast less heals. Similarly, straight mana per 5 also saves me mana.

I like the idea of having something with +healing on it for the burst healing benefit and would be willing to trade a slight amount of mana saving for this benefit, but I am primarily interested in mana saving. This druid is an alt with access to kara/za, pretty much.

I have pendant of the violet eye, bangle of endless blessings, lower city prayerbook, scarab of the infinite cycle, ribbon of craprafice, and am willing to get the battlemaster trinket, essence of the martyr if neccessary.

I am thinking talasite owl (which I can get as a JC) is the best trinket. However, I have asked multiple gladiator druids who all seem to have differing opinions.

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Old 11/26/07, 5:21 PM   #433
Anedris
King Hippo
 
Troll Priest
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Random question occurs to me - is the fecundity buff bestowed by the Ribbon of Sacrifice a magical effect? I'm guessing not, but if for some reason it was that would might make it a good anti-purge device (same goes for the Pendant's effect).

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Old 11/28/07, 6:10 PM   #434
Kansha
Banned
 
Undead Priest
 
Daggerspine
COCAINE IS A HELL OF A DRUG - RICK JAMES

Last edited by Kansha : 11/28/07 at 6:54 PM. Reason: TRUTH

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Old 11/28/07, 6:17 PM   #435
AriasImmortal
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by Anedris View Post
Random question occurs to me - is the fecundity buff bestowed by the Ribbon of Sacrifice a magical effect? I'm guessing not, but if for some reason it was that would might make it a good anti-purge device (same goes for the Pendant's effect).
Ribbon of Sacrifice buff is magic. I use it in 2s and 3s to protect BoSac at important points in the fight. I don't think the pendant buff is.

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