Lag might possibly be the cause of this, however, when I'm chain casting Healing Touch (or any other healing spell for that matter) and the Scarab of Infinite Cycle proccs, I find that the haste buff arrives "too late" in the sense that it does not affect the next spell after the spell it procced on. Obviously this really nerfs the use of the trinket, as I lose 3 seconds out of the total 6 second buff, thus severly corrupting its use in chain casting situations, which would usually be where it's needed the most.

Anyone else experiencing this?

I didn't see this anywhere else so I thought I would throw this in here.

With the 'buff' to the Eye of Gruul I decided I would figure out some of the math behind the mp/5 component, even though clearly based on luck with the 2% proc.

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chain casting 2.5 seconds spells. No interrupting.
casts per 10 seconds = 4
casts per minute = 24
2% = 50/24
2.083 minutes per proc
124.98 seconds per proc
450 mana refunded next cast

so 450/125 x 5 = 18 mp/5

but for in truth it's 127.5 seconds since it's an extra cast to get the 450 mana discount

Actual - 450/127.5 x 5 = 17.64 mp/5

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Now for 3 casts per 10 seconds of 2.5 second casts

Casts per 10 seconds = 3
casts per minute = 18
2% = 50/18
2.78 minutes per proc
166.8 seconds per proc
450 mana refunded next cast

so 450/166.8 x 5 = 13.49 mp/5

once again an extra cast in necessary so;
Actual - 450/169.3 x 5 = 13.29 mp/5

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The cast canceller

casts per 10 seconds = 2
casts per minute = 12
2% = 50/12
4.16 minutes per proc
249.6 seconds per proc
450 mana returned next cast

so 450/249.6 x 5 = 9.014mp/5

Extra cast necessary;

Actual - 450/252.1 x 5 = 8.925mp/5

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Math is not my strong suit and I'm not 100% sure if I did this right, so any feedback would be great... as it seems as though the proc rate makes this worse than the new Ribbon of Sacrifice. The "actual" numbers are assuming you re-cast the moment it procs.

I'm very disappointed in the new version of the eye basically exactly for the reason presented above. Some combat-log parsing suggests that, given my style of healing (holy priest: mostly different ranks of gheal and renew, flash when I really need it), I complete ~100 spells per 6 minutes of boss fight. Some fights a few more, some fights a few less, but...

At any rate, 2 procs (on average) per 6 minutes is (900/600)*5 = 7.5 mp/5--far worse than even a mindtap talisman. Even if I actually cast TWICE as many spells, that's still only a 15 mp/5 trinket--worse than a corresponding level 60 epic raid trinket (shard of the scale). Way, way worse than a talasite owl ;-)

The only possible saving grace is that the proc could be used to keep oneself outside the 5 second rule--not an argument I'm prepared to buy given how many of my spells cost more than 450 mana.

At any rate, I'll to believe that it's intended to be a paladin trinket (or maybe a tree druid trinket?), but short of literally doing nothing but spamming flash of light, I'm having a hard time seeing this as worthwhile. Needs to be 2% to clearcast IMO, that'd make it very solid without being irreplacable.

I don't know if it's that great on pallies however since thier FoL actually costs only 180 mana anyways, so unless you actually gain more mana then you spend when it procs or watch for it and use HL it would be rather mediocre.

Has anyone however done an actual test on the procrate on the PTR? Like I said before some of these proc have an incorrect description and in reality work differently. I.e. Spellsurge says it's a 3% chance on spellcast, in reality it's 15% chance with a 30 sec cooldown.

I've got to say, having raided through till and including Karatherass & Tidewalker, I have not found any trinket compareable to my Bangle of Endless Blessings and Talasite Owl. I'm sure it differs from class to class but I'm a regrowth spammer (24/0/37) who stacks spi for 5 second rule regen. Popping the Bangle and Talasite very early on in the fight then bangle+vate and talasite again is ridiculous. Raid buffed i have 700+ spi and then hitting the bangle+vate I vate tick 1k+ mana for 10 ticks in the 20 seconds. That's 10k+ mana from a vate...

The other trinkets from SSC, Living Root of the Wildheart falls way short for my healing style/cycle and I think I'll find it very hard to replace both my "rare" trinkets.

Has anyone taken a look at the new ribbon of sacrifice? 50% increase to the on use effect and 11 mp5 tacked on.

If this picture is right http://worldofraids.free.fr/2.1.0/BT/BTvendoritems.jpg does it become competative at all for say 25 man healing?

The fecundity effect from the old trinket renews with each application, thus granting ~30 seconds of a buff with 8 seconds of build up and 22 seconds of the full effect, assuming Flash Heal/Flash of Light.

Is this enough?

From what I've observed, the cast time of a spell is decided at the time you begin casting. I can start a holy light on the last second of Light's Grace and the cast time is still two seconds, even though the Light's Grace buff drops off before the spell finishes casting. I think your situation is caused by the delay between the spell finishing its cast and the application of the Infinite Cycle buff, since when you start the next cast, you don't have the spell haste until a fraction of a second later. For a three second spell, you may be better off canceling as soon as you see your proc and starting again, depending on your latency and reaction time. In any case, you can still start a cast right before the spell haste buff falls off and have it recieve the full benefit of the +haste.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I haven't actually tested it, but I will when I get some time.

Yeah kinda, I didn't really know what to make of it at first but I also chalked it up to lag. Perhaps there is something actually wrong with the mechanic of it though. While the trinket is great I think it should have a 10-12 or even 15 second duration, that would really make it worth while and a really excellent trinket.

Nah, the Scarab of Infinite Cycles really ought to give you an 'on next spell' casting time reduction that lasts for 10 seconds. Having it locked into one and only one spell being affected might allow them to more significantly reduce the spell casting time.

I have yet to find a better trinket than the Bangle of Endless Blessings (the boost to my innervates is ridiculously sexy, not to mention meditation proccing constantly).

At the moment I am still with Rejuvenating Gem for my other slot - it is still very nice at lvl 70. I'm thinking about picking up the trinket from the heroic badges to replace it however, i cant decide whether its worth losing the 9mp5.

One trinket i would steer clear of personally is the Lower City Prayerbook. Seriously, 22 mana less for 15 seconds? Even without taking global cooldown into account this trinket is fairly poor for any serious raider, when any adequately sized heals you cast will be well over 300 mana, and to get the full bonus from this you would have to spam heals - which kind of defeats the point of saving mana, which is what it's supposed to do ^^

Did some testing with Fel Reaver's Piston, it can proc off any jump of chain heal and you can have the hot running on multiple people at once. It does benefit from purification but gains nothing from +healing and different people's regeneration effects can be active on one person at once.

Basically its just plain awesome on things like netherspite's aura where you can endlessly spam low rank chain heals always hitting 3 people and leaving alot of hots running around the room.

Similarly the fecundity effect from ribon of sacrifice stacks on everyone hit by a chain heal, far less useful here though unless you are repeatedly chaining the same few people.

Currently i run with Xir'is Gift and Vengeance of the Illidari for the crit bonus mostly, but i don't have any problems to use the activated +heal to good effect.

I tried the Scarab and Nexus Horn combo, but i just don't like it, because i can't control the procc time and personally control matters to my healing style. It's a fun combo for trash pulls however.

For the 2.1 patch i'll probably get the Alchemist's Stone (can't beat the additional mana reg imo) and Heavenly Inspiration (which i want to upgrade to the Warp Scarab Brooch as soon as possible). As a jewelcrafter i'd probably get the Talasite Owl instead of the Brooch at least in fights i know i'll be able to use it twice, possibly even completly switching it for the Brooch.

As for the LCPB; the low CD is nice but i prefer a straight mana reg to the reduced casting cost bonus.


Generally speaking i'll up my mp/5 and +heal considerably to counteract the nerfbat that's gonna hit the Paladins Holy tree.

Some changes in 2.1 to some trinkets we had previously written off as useless.

Specifically, the Ribbon of Sacrifice had 11 MP5 added, and the effect was increased by 50%, for +30 to all heals per cast to a max stack of 150.

Does this move it into a worthwhile position?

Here's a possible model:

The effect lasts for 20 seconds, on a 2-minute cooldown. The Fecundity (hee!) buff lasts for 10s. If you're using your big heals and timing it well, the first application goes on (1.5+2.5) 4 seconds in, and subsequent applications go on every 2.5s. (That's in a spammy situation, and gives us the maximum value of the trinket without resorting to flash heals. I suspect that the calculation is not very sensitive to how fast you stack the buff, but I'll confirm that later.)

If you land your last heal right as the buff wears off, the 5-stack will persist for 10 seconds after the use effect fades from you.

That's 26 total seconds of Fecundity (hee!). 2.5s each of 1, 2, 3, and 4 stacks, with the remaining 16s of 5 stacks. That's an average of 4.03 stacks over the duration of the buff, for an average of 121 additional healing.

That's 121 healing for 26 seconds out of every 120, or 26.25 sustained healing to every healer in the raid, assuming you're all on the same target.

In that all-healer-on-one-tank situation, you're looking at an effective 183 healing across the raid, for a 7 healer 25-man raid. Even in a three-healer Kara raid, you're looking at 79 healing, for a rough equivalent to Rejuv Gem or LCPB.

That definitely pushes it into "situationally useful" territory.

Now to check my assumption about the sensitivity to casting frequency. Casting every 3s instead of 2.5 means an average stack of 3.85, for 115 healing per healer during the proc, compared to 121. Every 4s means an average stack of 3.46, for 103 healing per healer. As quickly as every 1.5s means 4.42, for 132 healing per healer. I don't think any of that makes a real difference as to the viability of the trinket, though obviously quick stacking does increase its value.

One pressing remaining question is whether it adds its healing to every time the target is healed (ie, every Renew tick), or if it adds to the effective +healing of the healer, and scales from there with cast time. If it doesn't scale with cast time, it becomes even stronger.

Verdict: Since the equip effect is solid, this trinket has become a pretty good choice for fights where there's a lot of healing concentrated on a single target-- Gruul, HKM, and late-stage Mag all spring to mind.

Absolutely the most perfect trinket for Paladins - I actually bound /use 14 infront of Flash of Light on my FOL hotkey, since FOL is only 180 mana, and I tend to spam the hell out of it anyways.

I have my LCPB bound to my Lesser Healing Wave key, but I really only use that when healing myself. Does anyone know if/how to set it up so that Clique can trigger it as well? I.e. shift-left click on a Grid square and trigger the LCPB + Healing Wave?

I've been dying on the first seconds of Karazhan pulls when the tank whiffs his first sunders against the Arcane Patrollers, so I decided to try this out. It works quite well, I throw a heal and then hit the trinket.

I've decided to make this a part of my regular 'trash mob healing' kit, and swap the Bangle in for the boss fights, since mana regen is not really a concern for the trash mobs where you can drink after each pull.

I think the central issue with the trinket; That the proc itself sucks in general, is still the problem. Adding static mp5 now just means its not going to be exclusively DE'd anymore. If the effect were for example something resembling the old druid t3 bonus, I think it would be a different story.

I just posted an analysis of the trinket, about 6 posts up, that suggests that the trinket is now pretty powerful in situations with several healers on a single target, and possibly breaks even with some current favorites like LCPB and the Rejuv Gem even in moderate situations.

Was I wrong on any substantial portion of my analysis?

The buffed Pendant of the Violet Eye comes to 21.6 mp5 if used optimally with 1.5s spammage to build the buff. I attached my quick and dirty excel sheet if anybody could verify I'm not out in left field.

Looks about right to me.

The problem with that approach, at least for a priest, is that the loss of efficiency from switching to Flash Heal will eat in to the benefits of getting a high stack.

I did some quick edits to your spreadsheet to see what happens if you build your stack with 2.5s casts, and you end up casting 8 spells returning 378 mana per cooldown, or 15.75 MP5.

Using 13 casts of 1.5s heals gets you 518 mana. Is getting 140 more mana back worth casting 13 flashes compared to 8 GHeals? I doubt it.

Yeah, I'm a little confused by the fact that so many of the TBC healing trinkets heavily favor FoL and thus paladins. LCPB, Pendant, the new Eye of Gruul, Ribbon of Sacrifice are all best activated by maximizing spells cast (i.e. spam!). Thats neat for me...but I wouldn't mind seeing a little more variety in trinkets either.