As a priest I find myself enjoying multiple trinkets. I always have Rejuv gem slotted, then I use a combo of the following: Alchemist Stone (when I know I'm chugging), Blue Dragon Deck (Very good with level 70 spirit), Scarab (for trash), Shard of the Scale, and come next patch Eye of Gruul.
Lately I've really been liking the Blue Dragon deck, when a fight gets multiple procs it makes me quite happy.
Ribbon of Sacrifice is garbage -- you are not missing anything. I looted one, played with it for a bit to make sure I wasn't misreading something, and then vendored it.
Unfortunate
They've added 11 mp5 passive to it on top of the Fecundity thing with effect from the next content patch (as Cryect's post here shows Black Temple PTR and new loot discussion)
I just posted an analysis of the trinket, about 6 posts up, that suggests that the trinket is now pretty powerful in situations with several healers on a single target, and possibly breaks even with some current favorites like LCPB and the Rejuv Gem even in moderate situations.
Was I wrong on any substantial portion of my analysis?
Your analysis on what it does was fine, I just simply don't agree that its useful. I was never in the dark as to what it could do, I just don't think what it "can do" is any good. Essentially, it does very little in actual raid environments. Just because it *can* be useful, doesn't mean it ever really will have the chance to be. Ultimately we're talking about situations in which overheal is a consistent necessity and the ability to have an effect as such applied at the exact right moment to gain a desired effect(IE:Saving your tank) is nonexistant(Use it during an enrage? Meh, I guess maybe, but a couple hundred healing to a couple people shouldn't really be the thing that continually gets you through a fight). Along that line, the idea that the effect would even be used to a fraction of its potential seems far fetched, just because of that needed amount of overheal. Then to make matters worse it has to stack to get there.
While the concept of increasing healing by a sizable portion for a short duration is in and of itself useful(zhc, etc. ad infinitum), the implementation of said effect on the ribbon is ineffective. In order to get full benefit of the trinket it has to be up at a time where added healing is necessary because the tank is taking such large amounts of damage that they won't be topped off, but since we're not psychics, and the effect is applied in stacks, by the time it is fully applied that "time of crisis" would already be long past. To those ends I made the comment that if it were something that could be applied intentionally beforehand to mitigate whatever factors might be present, then it could have value(I maintain that something akin to the stacking hp buff on the druid T3 is a sensible alternative). In the world of burst damage and spikes on tanks, it isn't how much healing your healers have(yes obviously once in a while, a tank will survive with some ridiculously low amount of hp), so much as it is the amount of hp your tank has. With multiple people healing a tank he generally sits or should sit at max, and most if not all heals have an overhealing component. It is with respect to that idea, that tacking 200 more on to what is already overhealing, is without merit. In the end it would take either bad luck or bad play(on someone's part) to make the effect on the trinket useful(95% of the time), and good luck(on yours) to have it ready at the right time to counter those things. Those don't seem like good reasons to use an item to me.
They've added 11 mp5 passive to it on top of the Fecundity thing with effect from the next content patch (as Cryect's post here shows Black Temple PTR and new loot discussion)
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings
Yeah I regret letting one be sharded a week or two back.
The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
Bringing this thread back to the top, what do you guys use for PvP healing?
I'm considering using a Timelapse Shard + Scarab of Infinite Cycle combination, but I'm a bit tempted to try out the Tidal Charm vs. level 70s. Does anyone still use a Tidal Charm? And if so, how are the resist rates against 70s?
They've added 11 mp5 passive to it on top of the Fecundity thing with effect from the next content patch (as Cryect's post here shows Black Temple PTR and new loot discussion)
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings
The regen isn't that impressive compared to other available trinkets, and the Fecundity effect is still weak and limited. Lower City Prayer Book alone (and who doesn't have one of these by now?) grants a passive +70 healing, and >15 mp5 for a paladin spamming FoL and at least 10mp5 for anyone who will cast 6 spells in that 15 seconds. If you're not a spammy-style healer, then Fecundity wouldn't stack for you anyway, and you'd be better off with a spirit-style trinket than something with mp5.
Tidal Charm does have a chance to fizzle but as it is right now the charm doesn't blow its cooldown on a failed attempt so you could proceed to spam it until it does connect.
I was never lucky enough to get a Rejuv Gem, though we did enough clears I was packing full T2... and only one Gem dropped in that entire time.
I usually sport Bangle and Scarab... I would probably prefer a Talasite Owl over the Bangle but saving the on use for an incoming innervate or when I know I have a little downtime is great.
LCPrayerbook was in my rotation a while back before the Prayer of Mending nerf... I had it macroed to activate when a ProM was cast in combat... used to be great for running 5 mans and using it as a reduced mana cost for helping out that tank that just needed a little extra something on bigger pulls to get some extra aggro.
So far epic healing trinkets for priests haven't given me anything to get too excited about but from what I've seen for upcoming changes quite a few look much more appealing.
Tidal Charm does have a chance to fizzle but as it is right now the charm doesn't blow its cooldown on a failed attempt so you could proceed to spam it until it does connect.
I had read that elsewhere and I was hoping for a confirmation. Time to start farming another Tidal Charm!
Bringing this thread back to the top, what do you guys use for PvP healing?
PvP trinket (stun/fear/polymorph) and Scrolls of Blinding Light (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=19343), using trinket menu to switch to Shard of the scale/Rejuv Gem after the starting 2 are used and on CD if I get out of combat momentarily.
The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
PvP trinket (stun/fear/polymorph) and Scrolls of Blinding Light (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=19343), using trinket menu to switch to Shard of the scale/Rejuv Gem after the starting 2 are used and on CD if I get out of combat momentarily.
Same. Scrolls of Blinding Light makes me hate the 2nd CoT a little bit less, or at least deal with it slightly better in arena. Also can fight back against a bloodlusted team, or APing mages, etc. Lovely trinket, glad I never vendored it back when it was mediocre.
I would kill for an equivalent haste rating Shaman trinket, but alas- The only healing class without one from BWL/ZG. Didn't the old Natural Alignment Crystal also increase healing by 20% as well as damage?
I didn't see this anywhere else so I thought I would throw this in here.
With the 'buff' to the Eye of Gruul I decided I would figure out some of the math behind the mp/5 component, even though clearly based on luck with the 2% proc.
chain casting 2.5 seconds spells. No interrupting.
17.64 mp/5
Now for 3 casts per 10 seconds of 2.5 second casts
13.29 mp/5
The cast canceller
8.925mp/5
Math is not my strong suit and I'm not 100% sure if I did this right, so any feedback would be great... as it seems as though the proc rate makes this worse than the new Ribbon of Sacrifice. The "actual" numbers are assuming you re-cast the moment it procs.
I like the numbers you've done on the 2.1.0 version of the Eye of Gruul. They seem to agree with some math I've done myself. I took a slightly different approach and employed the use of discrete probability instead of averages. In such a situation one would employ the use of the Poisson Distribution
I based my numbers off a parse of a Gruul Kill that my guild did a week or two ago. I'm using the Gruul encounter specifically because it seems to be a reasonable length boss encounter which by my no means is easy the first couple of times attempting him.
One of our paladins had cast a total of 69 heals over the space of 4 minute of heal time in the 6.5 minutes it took to kill Gruul.
We will take the hypothetical situation that the above mentioned paladin had the Eye of Gruul equiped in its current PTR form and was able to cast an effective heal within the 15 seconds of the trinket proccing.
Using a web calculator of the poission distribution http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...th/poifcn.html
The eye of gruul would have had a probability of not proccing of ~ 25%
That would mean that there's a one in 4 chance that this trinket would be a waste of space.
The chance that eye of gruul would proc just once in that time is ~ 35%
In which case its equivalent mp5 would be 450/48 or roughly 9.4mp5
This would mean that approx one third of the time it is less than a mindtap talisman.
Chance for 2 procs ~ 24%
Chance for 3 procs ~ 11%
Chance for +4 procs ~ 5%
So roughly 40% of the time this trinket would be close to 20 mp5.
So in the above situation where one of our guild paladins had cast his 69 heal spells over 4 minutes he would have had a 60% chance to be using a subpar/useless trinket and only a 40% chance to be using a trinket which is only marginally better than a Shard of Scale.
Unless I've done something wrong, or someone can find a situation where this trinket might have a chance to proc more often to be worth while then one would have to say that this not a trinket one would want to acquire as a healer.
Last edited by Cythenea : 04/30/07 at 12:37 PM.
Reason: fixed a brokent link
"MT group right now, as generally we have 2 tanks, a shaman, a paladin and a warlock. Stacking a tree in there with it would mean cutting that down to one tank getting the benefit of everything, and the second tank gets shafted"
We have 2 tanks, pally, warlock, and druid. We sub out the warlock for a shaman occasionally. And in the case of a fight like Gruul where there are 2 tanks, we put warlock, pally, MT, tree, and extra shaman if we have it. The feral off tank for the hurtfuls goes in the melee group for 5%, since we only have one feral.
But our guild perfers a tree to a shaman in the MT group. We even have 3 tanks, tree, and pally in Mags groups. The +healing is greater benefit overtime to the extra max HP and other stanima benefits. Although I'm not sure if a shaman's buffs, which also add threat, wouldn't be wiser.
I was looking through my bank tonight and saw my Enamored Water Spirit. I've been using Alchemist's Stone and Scarab of Infinite cycle, but I can do without Scarab's proc. The totem from the trinket gives I think 37-38 mana per tick for and for 12 ticks (can't login right now to check if that number is affected by T4 set bonus). That's 450 mana per party member every 3 minutes or 12.5 MP5 for your whole party.
Unfortunately for it, mana spring gives 18 a tick so it's only 240 mana or 6mp5 for your party. It would be negligably more for the shaman dropping it (delays the cost of mana spring totem for 24 seconds and so maybe saves you 120 mana in the course of the fight).
Rats. I was hoping that level 52 quest reward still held onto some of it's lvl 60 raiding glory. I just worked out the math while making this post so I'm basically talking to myself.
The only salvation for the eye of gruul I can think of is that the description of the trinket is incorrect and it works like spellsurge in reality, i.e. a much higher proc chance but with a hidden internal cooldown. Spellsurge claims it's a 3% chance to proc, while in reality it's a 15% chance to proc with a 30 sec cooldown... if the eye of gruul actually works like this it could be good. If the description is correct it's sad.
has anyone done any more testing with the Eye of Gruul on test?
Eye of Gruul
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 44.
Equip: Each healing spell you cast has a 2% chance to make your next heal cast within 15 sec cost 450 less mana.
Contrary to what I said earlier about pvp trinkets, I now use infinite cycle/pvp trinket instead of scrolls/pvp trinket. Normally you will get multiple procs where as scrolls are are one time use pretty much (long cd).
I need to get around to trying meta gem/scrolls/infinite cycle for insane spell haste at some stage.
The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
As a priest I find I use quite many different trinkets depending on the situation.
Heroics, where mana regeneration is seldom an issue and I'm normally the only healer, I use the old combination of Scarab Brooch (Viscidus drop) + Hazza'rah's Charm of Healing. Used together in a macro with inner focus and a max rank Greater Heal and hotkeyed for an "Emergency Button" which has saved my group from dying more often than I can count.
PvP it's the Hazza'rah's Charm of Healing and the pvp trinket to geht out of stun or polymorph.
Raid trash I normally use Scarab Brooch and Scarab of the Infinite Cycle.
Raid bosses is still the good old combination of Shard + Gem, but I'm dreaming about the new Earring of Soulful Meditation + Fel Reaver's Piston.
I got the Pendant of the Violet Eye last night. I'm a healadin and was wondering your thoughts on the 2.1.0 version of this healing trink.
40 INT
21/mp5 for 20 secs ... 2 minute cool down
Obviusly you get the general mana increase of 600 mana, but then you get .5% Increase to Crit and with Holy Guidence you get 14 extra damage/healing
So, is this a good trinket now as compared to LC prayer book?
(PS, Rejuv Gem still rocks my world as the best trink out there)
Finally, I was testing out the Mystic Skyfire Meta Gem. I think I only got a couple of procs during my entire Karazhan run last night. I was really disappointed with it. Previously I had the 12int and chance for mana back. I think I will go back to that. I also was thinking about it for PvP but now I think the 18 stam and stun resist would be more beneficial. Thoughts?
Personally, I really don't like on use trinkets that offer a +heal or -mana buff for a short duration eg: lower city prayer book etc. I find the problem is always when to use them... ideally you want to use it whenever the cd is up but often that's a huge waste. Alternatively, often you forget to use them if things are hectic and the trinket might as well be a dead weight.
Some people go and marco their on use trinkets to one of their heal hotkeys and thus use them whenever they are up, I'm not keen on that at all as generally it will waste the effect and it just seems cheesy.
My favorite trinkets are the ones that offer excellent passive bonuses or a high chance on cast type effect eg: Rejuv gem, Shard of the Scale, Infinite Cycle.
I find it hilarious that a trinket from oynxia and a trinket from middle bwl bosses are largely the best attainable pve trinkets for most people.
The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
I'm currently sporting Rejuv and Shard, and have my Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon in the bank for when I get enough T4/T5 that my spirit climbs to useful levels. Right now I'm Mp5-whored, so my raid buffed spirit is well under 400.
I'm seriously thinking about the Kara trinket instead of Shard, since I'd lose 5 Mp5 for a proc that *may* apply to the whole raid. It'd be a useful thing to pop on a spike, if it actually increases everyone's healing toward the tank. If it's only a personal buff, even at the highest level, +150 healing is minimal in effect. I'd rather have a constant 5Mp5.
What I *really* want is Warmth of Forgiveness, but we never got 4H.
Yeah, I'm taking the Ribbon of Sacrifice out of the bank and trying it out on our first post-patch Gruul attempt. When you're talking about 7 healers on the MT, who's taking tons of damage, it really starts looking pretty attractive. (Especially since my opportunity-cost trinket is the Scarab.)
I got the Pendant of the Violet Eye last night. I'm a healadin and was wondering your thoughts on the 2.1.0 version of this healing trink.
40 INT
21/mp5 for 20 secs ... 2 minute cool down
Obviusly you get the general mana increase of 600 mana, but then you get .5% Increase to Crit and with Holy Guidence you get 14 extra damage/healing
So, is this a good trinket now as compared to LC prayer book?
(PS, Rejuv Gem still rocks my world as the best trink out there)
Finally, I was testing out the Mystic Skyfire Meta Gem. I think I only got a couple of procs during my entire Karazhan run last night. I was really disappointed with it. Previously I had the 12int and chance for mana back. I think I will go back to that. I also was thinking about it for PvP but now I think the 18 stam and stun resist would be more beneficial. Thoughts?
Not as good as it was(...but its been bugged....), but still quite strong. Definitely one of the better pally trinkets. Works out to around 27 mp5 assuming optimal conditions and fol(not an exact number, but around there somewhere).
For whomever asked about the tidal charm at 70, the fizzle chance really isn't that bad, and I really like it for arenas. Having another interrupt is extremely valuable.
The new ptr push put 16 mp5 on the Fel Reaver's Piston, so for those still using shards and mp5 trinkets, its something to consider. Not to say that it isn't ridiculous that an Onyxia trinket is still almost as good as a TK drop, but....I guess we have to take what we can get.
04/18/07, 11:20 PM
Didn't the old Natural Alignment Crystal also increase healing by 20% as well as damage?
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