mils

Has anyone run the numbers on the TF post 2.0.10.

I did a search but didn't come up with any results...

My guildies tell me they are not seeing any difference in my threat gen its just as high as it was.

Personally I have to move around more for positioning so when I tclap I don't break CC, but other than that its been the same.

I'm working hard on nethers to get Bladeguard as the Fireguard isn't exceeding TF for threat gen, damage or base dps. (rage is slightly higher on fireguard, but in any raid instances rage isn't something i care much about)

Has anyone run the numbers? With Blazeguard, can I finally shelve this TF? Or will I be stuck wielding this streamer forever?

The other thing is its slowing effect is equal to my imp tclap but doesn't require rage...

Thanks in advance
Mils

 

◊ Anias

For the record - imp tclap is great argo/rage.

 

Hozz

I recall seeing post-nerf threat numbers towards the end of this thread Kenco: A Guide To Threat.

 

suicuique

I switched to Blazeguard post 2.0.10

I'd say my aggro is roughly the same it was before with TF (going by KLTH numbers). If not higher.
TC reduces attack speed on 4 targets. It produces significant aggro. At such it is preferable to the TF speed debuff.

I'm not sure if TF is still the best single aggro generating weapon. Depending on procs it could still be the case. I've just not tested it thoroughly.

It was a good weapon. And served me for 16 months.
You've earned your bank spot.
R.I.P TF.

 

Uziel

While you are asking specifically for numbers, I've switched to King's Defender with Mongoose. I do end up spending more rage with Thunderclap, but I think it evens out in that I can control when the mob has the debuff and with Chronometer I can see exactly how long until it needs to be refreshed.

 

Hogey

I think one of the issues of thunderfury vs thunderclap is that the TF debuff cannot be reliably controlled. i.e. when we have two mobs that need to be split to separate tanks, sometimes the offtank struggles to peel the mob away due to a taunt resist / miss or whatever.

If you swap to the Blazeguard then you can thunderclap after the other tank has established aggro. Not like you need the extra aggro gain anyway Mils, the rogues in your guild are TERRIBLE!

 

mils

thanks for all the replies guys!

And lol hogs!

I'll keep working on my blazeguard.

I use nacb for thunderclap timers you say this chromometer is better? I shall check it out!

Mils

 

• Apate

I'm fairly certain that we can see your name to the left of your post twice already

See you, auntie.
"lol" is not a period lol
You don't need a machine to make a rainbow. For rainbows are made of happy thoughts, and dreams, and chocolate unicorns, and gumdrops, and licorice sunsets, and fuzzy gumdrop bears, and sugar-coated chocolate gumdrop land.

Originally Posted by DeeNogger I am coming for you Apate.

 

Deathwing

I thought we made fun of them by signing our posts too. Dang, which do I sign with my character or my account?

Deathwing/Baalzamon

 

Sebila

Today (in heroics and Kara) I started to have my own doubts that TF>KD for aggro, what do you guys think?

I got mongoose on both and imp TC so to me it's not much sweat to switch.

We are at Lurker now, so the guild is getting more gear etc. I'll see how it goes with the new set bonus 4/5 T4 though, but has anyone run numbers or have a definitive opinion?

I see MTs from more advanceds guild then mine (in 3/5 T5 and 2/5 T4) still using TF >KD.

 

arc

Do you actually see them raiding with it or just wearing it around Shattrath though? That's a pretty big distinction. Personally I've been using King's Defender since the patch and plan on upgrading to a Mallet of the Tides if it'll drop.

However, TF will probably still be my city piece for a while just because it looks cooler. Especially with Mongoose.

 

Sebila

They do raid with TF, i.e. I talked to the traditional tank, now guild leader also, from the power guild of my old server, who are at the Lady Vasjh, also I got this reply from my former main healer who just transfered to a power guild:

Oskar wrote:
Meh, TF has the DPS and has the proc - you still see members of Nihilum (who have killed Illidan and now Archimonde too) using it. I know they were still using it in TK (videos). I've always though for the proc it's better for threat. KD is a big mitigation sword. Once you move past the KD (i.e. Mallet of the Tides) I'd start to wonder, just from the raw DPS (and MotD has mace skill rating, overrated but useful), but as for KD, I'd still stick to the TF for threat and KD for mitigation. Personally.


Ty bud.

Also:

a) I just got 4/5 T4 so the new set bonus (+10% more damage after revenge should help)

Having said that I'll:

b) Doing revenge first now, followed by shield block after, most times (reversing what I was normally doing) and not dump rage via heroic strike anymore (after shield slam, devastate), except rarely. Even if I had put 2/3 points in heroic strike.

I mean maybe I also need to adjust how I do things.

Anymore thoughts?

I will start most fights with KD for now, see how it goes, if our hunters/mages can pull or not (cause some were pulling from TF but not from KD, after switching to it).

 

jbl7979

I have been thinking about this too. I had my tfury banked but now that I have picked up a few pieces in SSC/TK I am considering a respec away from im tclap and back to tfury. I have definately noticed a lot of fights now (basically everything but morogrim) where it becomes a rage issue to actually use tclap when I want to, especially with revenge). Right now i dont have devastate, so I just spam HS on bosses, but this rage is become an issue too. Im thinking tf may save me a lot of rage from spamming HS on a fast weapon to moving to devastating more w/ normalization, and saving all the rage from tclap.

 

Buiden

I'm still a believer in TFury personally.

Here is a WWS of void reaver, which is a good threat gen benchmark fight. http://www.exigenceguild.org/WWS/wws...05/buiden.html I held agro until under 50% despite taking several knockbacks.

I'll see if I can't do the fight next week using a different weapon and report the results.

 

Kaywarrior

Looking at this page I noticed you also have no bear tanks. I find that if you have a bear tank they will generate such amazing threat as a OT that they will often if not always pull first off me. I think my best to date for holding aggro on VR would be getting him to about 60%~, and that was with about 3~4 KB's, including one that came at a unlucky 97%. I was using a KD for every VR kill so far.

 

Buiden

I ate at least 4 KBs before I lost agro at 47% I believe, take it for what it is worth. My point was merely that TF is still an amazing tanking weapon.

 

Dollar

I would like to here the results of that, I think that would be the only way to accurately measure how threatworthy TF actually is.

 

Helot

I know that imp TClap is the same as TFury debuff, but what would your thoughts be for paladins using TFury.

Currently in karazhan, we do usually have a warrior tanking, w/ a druid/warrior OTing, but if the day comes when it's pally/druid tanks, there wouldn't be any Tclap going up.

If that happens, would it be worth using the TF?

Or in general, since pallies are the aoe-tanking kings, would TF not help them even more when the proc goes off?

It's an ideal speed as well for reckoning, allowing 3 out of the maximum 4 swings most of the time, with the occasional 4/4.


And if it is worth using, would it still be worth farming for, if they don't have a TF?

 

Mizerok

If someone is even thinking about saying that Kungen still uses his cause they saw it in the Illidan video watch the thing again. He obviously only wears it while shooting things. SUPER CRAZY BT CLEARING SECRET?!!?!

 

Dollar

If you have a Paladin who actually has a TF right now it might be worth trying out, but I haven't ever heard of anybody giving it to a Pally.

I don't think it would be worth farming for, personally. I doubt you have any raiders that want to relive the nightmare that was/is MC even though it now takes a minimal amount of time to clear. Your chances of getting one, even if you cleared it every single week, are minimal at best. I know of guilds that cleared halfway through Naxx, running MC every week for years and never got a single binding.

This is all speculation on how much time you would spend on something that probably wouldn't amount to much.

 

Zurgat

I'm curious though, how would TF compare to Mallet of the Tides, or Blazefury.
For like, threat per second, and mitigation.

I'd say Blazefury has the highest TPS of the 3. and the Malled the highest mitigation.
But can't really produce any numbers, Is there a "tanking" / tankpoints spreadsheet?

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

mils

I've been running the numbers and it doesn't make sense but when you end up devo spamming stage of a boss fight (slam, revenge, devo, devo) the tf procs like mad off all the devo's and revenges. And my tps tends to raise more than that of a standard weapons(blazeguard). It might also be my cast cycle doesn't need to include Tclap and when learning encounters and leading them not having to worry about tclap timer is a tiny help when using tf too.

so its kinda a nice lazy weap which still gets the job done. I have done 2 gruul kills with wws stats here

http://www.sacrifice-guild.net/wws/w...150/index.html

and

http://www.sacrifice-guild.net/wws/w...139/index.html

I plan to run the next 2 gruuls without TF and see what the numbers produce.

I still like my TF for learning encounters maybe its a saftey blanket thing or a good luck charm I dunno.

Mils

 

◊ Shaker

I hope you mean devastate, not devo(tion aura?) or demo(ralizing shout?)

 

Buiden

No, Thunderfury would NOT make a good paladin weapon IMO. The reason it is still so viable for warriors is every 1.5s a warrior can hit an instant attack that can proc thunderfury. This is simply not the case for a paladin.

 

Levaraa

One of our MTs is actually a pally, who does use TF (we were lucky, ended up with ~4 TFs iirc) and has I believe the second highest TPS in the guild, even on single targets. Granted, he doesn't have instant attacks every 1.5 seconds, but with how often reckoning procs, it's pretty much constantly in motion, don't think I've seen longer than 3 seconds at the begining of a fight w/o TF debuff going off. On top of the speed debuff, it does help with serpent stings/elemental shaman... so over-all, it's still a great tanking weapon IMO.