Durnitol

Not sure if this or general is the right forum, but....

My guild hasn't finished Karazhan yet, and I've been enhancement almost the whole time in a group of melee. I am finally getting gear similar to that of the itemization post I made, and I am almost competitive DPS in fights where melee can stay in the whole time. I think I am still undergeared though because I am still bottoming out the DPS on boss fights, even if only by 1-2%.

Looking forward, I am seeing a lot of info come in about the 25 man content that has been conquered so far, and every shaman in the screen shots appears to be resto. I wanted to discuss if there is ANY possibility that non-resto makes the cut on 25-man content in a well fleshed out guild. I am not talking about filler because some class is missing, I mean intentionally bringing a non-resto shaman to fill a raid spot.

I would suspect Elemental focus is too new to try to convince raid leaders to try Elemental shamans into 25-man content , and the gear isn't really there yet to support crits and longevity. There is a video link somwhere on these boards about a sustained 950 DPS for 2.5 minutes self buffed only, no pots on Dr. Boom. I tried to theorycraft it further with pots, flasks, elixir, Blessings, Mana tide, etc and could only extend the sustained dps about another 2 minutes. This is great and all, but what do mages, locks w/shadow priests, etc produce fully buffed in the same scenario? I would think that comparing an all out staged DPS fight with longevity would ber a good way to let raid leaders at least look at the possibility. And if shamans fall short, then at least we know.

As for Enhancement, assuming the WF nerf isn't coming any time soon, has ANYONE brought an ENH shaman to a 25-man raid in gear comparable to a rogue/DPS warrior? Has it been field-tested at all?

Most endgame raiders I talk to scoff at the mere mention of the "shitty off-specs", and I can't break through the bias with any hard evidence beyond theorycrafting to back any of it up.

Is resto really the best thing Shamans have going for them End-game? I mean chain heal and earth shield are sweet and everything, but do I really need to respec to consider getting out of Karazhan and into the big time?

 

Desall

I think the issue isn't so much that non resto specs are not considered usefull.
Just that shaman healing does increase your raids survivabillity.
I feel that for full raids like in Serpentshrine it's nice to have 2 restoration shamans.
If there are more shaman I guess it would be ok to use them for melee/caster buffing.

I have been speccing back and forth between restoration and enhancement to the point I'm thinking it's getting expensive (also because of the need to socket/enchant both gear sets).
So I don't really mind being a healer for a while and their easymode consumables.

 

◊ Maniq

Enhancement shaman are viable in 25 man zones, the DPS boost we bring is very high and properly geared, we can be very high on the DMs. In Karazhan I'm typically #2 for the clear and thats due to lack of a deaggro.

Give it time, get some more gear and you'll see yourself climb the DMs quickly.

 

GamingManiac

Without the WF bug (I did this a month ago, and didn't have "that" much knowledge about how 5/4 was overpowered) I never really got #1 or #2 on the DPS charts. HOWEVER, I put up competitive DPS below the "top DPS" and also boosted the DPS of those in my group. All told, I'd say any fight that isn't absolutely melee unfriendly, I see no reason why a enh shaman wouldn't work out. That being said, you wouldn't try bringing many rogues to those, which are basically the equivalent of enhancement shamans.

Honestly though, I'd rather see people run WITHOUT using the 5/4 bug for a Karazhan or two so they can start getting used to the DPS nerf and so the raid leader can decide what the shaman's DPS would ACTUALLY be viable over the rogues whenever the nerf hits us. Specify that you're doing this to your RL and show you can still not suck. It'll hurt, but it's not world-destroying.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...n101/sigP2.jpg

 

muwatallis

Darkstorm's "fantastic" Dmeters chart when they killed Gruul for the first time.



PS: Lylz is DW Enhancement.

God, i love these guys

Existence & Uniqueness.

 

Gatzu

I hope those warlocks died early. And no shadow priests?

 

berg

Yeah that looks like some kind of really bizarre meter for gruul. Was that a 'oops i decided never to shatter' kill?

I just dont know how melee could beat the various shadow casters on this fight unless something strange was going on.

 

GrizleyCQ

Oddly there is very little interest in resto shaman in our guild, and I've seen very few resto shaman in ANY alliance guild.

Personally I think elemental is the best hybrid spec at the moment. Enhancement turns into either a gimp or a rogue with totems as gear improves. Its not possible to both do competitive damage and have substantial heals, that means you are giving up either your ability to dps or your ability to heal. It may be worth giving a raid spot to an enhancement shaman just because personal dps + buff dps > rogue dps. As long as that holds true you are better off taking 2 rogues, 1 war, 1 feral, 1 enhance over the same group with 3 rogues.

On the other hand with elemental I can do great dps, matching a mage at least in single target dps, plus add a ton of damage to a caster group and substantial longevity and still turn around and throw respectable heals around. The downside is that since you CAN heal you will spend more time healing and so it doesn't show on the damage meters as well. You might end up 3rd on damage in KZ but also 3rd on healing... It seems like a more flexible setup.

 

Miaxi

Muwatallis, I hate you for posting that meter. It was an "omg Niamee heal everyone around you or we wipe!!! Panic-panic" first kill. >.<

Here is a never-shatter-gruul meter: http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/504...7160649fr2.jpg Lylz wasn't there and it was before 2.0.10, when elemental had like no regeneration at all.

And here a Hydross meter with Lylz: http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6...rossdpsan8.jpg And I hope that whoever had the stupid idea to make him go immune to nature half of the time burns in hell.

 

Durnitol

The more I research the more I agree here. I was hoping that the spec in question 41/0/20 would have the most versatility. Some fights and trash where 6 healers is enough you DPS. On fights where ranged DPS is king you DPS. On fights where melee is king you heal. AE damage you heal, etc etc. Enhancement really is just a rogue with totems and no poisons.

Too bad there is no gear to back any of this up yet. If elemental gets buffed anymore, it's likely to manifest as spell crit gear. Swap out the healing sets for the fights where needed.

Hopefully the naysayers will see those meters and think twice before rejecting non-resto out of hand.

 

◊ Kurisu

Out of curiosity though does anyone have any other meters with elemental shaman dps? Just want to see how various shaman are doing.

 

Blush

I just wanted to reinforce the notion that enhancement shamans are currently viable dps in almost any situation. Vodka's enhancement shaman is typically top 5 on most encounters and for many of our hydross attempts and kill was 1 or 2. Elemental on the other hand does not fare very well on the damage meters but if spec'd for totem of wrath can add quite a bit of dps to their five man group.

 

Kegsta

im playing elemental atm, at +850 LB damage and 32% crit + 5% LO self buffed is very nice, +9% hit from tallents (does my draenei aura effect myself does anyone know), this is just with blues, and not very hard to attain ones either http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/?#...krock&n=Kegsta. with a few more purples i can see ele shammys doing quite nasty amounts of damage, the main problem we have is we dont have curse of shadows / elixir of shadow power equivilent for raid dps.
id also like to see some more damage meters of a well geared ele dpsing in a 25 man

 

Quasar

Our only 70 Shaman started off Elemental, but is currently Resto and loving it. I wish I saw his sustained DPS on a boss for my own curiosity, but on Karazhan trash his effective crit on LB was 45-55%, which went a long way towards his mana efficiency. He was easily at the top of the DM and wasn't pulling aggro or going OOM, though clearly some trash packs is not indicative of dps longevity and strength. I'm still curious, though. =P

JUICE! Aww I'm sorry. Did... did anyone want some juice?

 

Qong

I'm Elemental. 40/0/21, NS for PvP mostly. I think that I'll pick up Totem of Wrath if I stick with Elemental DPS for raiding though. We're going to Serpentshrine Cavern either this week or starting next week, I'll wait to see how things go with me as DPS in there before I decide for sure.

But the raids that I have done (Gruul), I've done fine on I think. I believe that I was 6th and 7th on the DM for the two Gruul kills that I was on. The last one, I was under the overpowered Gruul DPS classes like Warlocks and Shadow Priests, and a Mage and a Rogue from what I recall. I've been first on Gruul practice attempts in which none of the DPS used any consumables at all though, maybe they just weren't trying as hard, I'm not sure. But with consumables it seems much harder for me to keep up with the top of the meter. This is with mostly blue dungeon gear by the way.

Also, a bit off topic; but Nature really needs to be added to Curse of Elements. It fits, and I personally don't see any issues arising from Nature being added to it.

 

Ghando

Enhancement Shamans are absolutely solid DPS. Having 1 or 2 available on fights where melee DPS shines is really nice, both for their damage and the damage they bring to their groups. What I don't think is smart is the trend I see with Alliance Shamans ALL speccing full DPS. 41+ in Enhance allows you to legitimately specialize and excel at a role, albeit at the cost of the talents in Restoration that make it a viable tree for healing. Spending more than 35-36 points in Elemental does not allow you to excel at a nuking role, and it carries the same penalties as a full Enhance build in terms of what you sacrifice in healing. Lightning Overload is terrible. It's better than nothing, but it's terrible. Totem of Wrath is good in a vacuum, but the fact that it's attached to 5 points of pure waste ruins it for me.

Some guilds have healers coming out their ears and never lack for that role. My guild is not one of those. I'm using a 36/0/25 build, which gives me 90% of the damage potential of Elemental with 80% of the healing potential of Restoration. If you have Healing Way and Nature's Swiftness, you can be competitive. Shamans speccing Totem of Wrath are really limiting their versatility...good luck solo healing the challenging Heroics. For me, there's so much content that's NOT 25-man raiding in TBC that a pure DPS build bogs you down. An Ele/Resto hybrid really lets the class's versatility shine. Speccing full Enhance is limiting, but the results of that specialization are so good that it's worth having one around.

When I've been DPSing (in cast-off gear, I'm about 100 +damage behind where I'd like to be gear-wise) I'm hard to touch in heroic 5-mans, and in Kharazan I get #2 or #3. And for the love of God, PLEASE add Nature to Curse of Elements.

 

• Playered

2 Questions with that DMeter
#1 Druid = Feral? & how the hell could a Melee d/w Enhancement Shaman be that high and not over-agro the OT/MT? which I've seen happen with not great geared Enhancement Shamans on other encounters.

 

• Shabadu

CLOTH

I'm currently specced resto and terrible drop rates have forced me to settle for leather in a couple healing slots and take more gear with spirit than I'd like, but I've had no problem finding excellent mail in every slot for elemental.

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/?#...anis&n=Shabadu for when armory updates with my elemenal gear loadout. I desperately need an upgrade in the glove and leg slot, as good as 2 piece tidefury is, an epic is worth putting a 80g spellthread on.

 

Kegsta

nothing wrong with cloth and leather, although i plan to get all mail eventually, bracers from heroic BF, belt and pants from heroic UB, just havent had the drops yet. The Kurenai Kilt is very nice tho for a blue rep item for just pure damage

 

muwatallis

Well, i think Niamee would be the true person to answer your question. I'm only a fan of that guild, since Al'akir was my very first realm to play. I'm not a member of DarkStorm.

Sulliwan, is a feral druid. Keep in mind that, this screenshot and therefore DPS results belong to the pre-v2.0.10 patch; where feral druids were not nerfed(Or as a druid, whatever you call it.) yet.

Existence & Uniqueness.

 

• RK

I had my first really full hitout in Kara tonight as an elemental, 37/0/24 (no lightning overload). I was being reasonably conservative, and wasn't using many buffs (food and adepts, basically, and major manas on longer boss fights, no need for supers). We went up to Prince (8% wipe and he bugged out, sigh; we'll be back tomorrow to finish).

I'd been in Kara briefly last week as elemental but only for some trash clearing and Aran. Previously I'd run Kara a bit as full resto.

For the overall run, our rogue and hunter creamed everyone, but duh (hi2u magic immune eels, plus they're our best geared guys). As far as DPS on most non-gimmick fights (including boss fights) went, our rogue was usually #1, me and the hunter and our best geared mage- full tailoring set, full spellstrike set, and pretty much the best of 5-mans and heroics- very close to each other. We had a bit of a revolving door of other mages and a lock, but none of them got close to me despite all having equal or better quality gear. And I still got off some NS healing waves and did some sustained healing here and there (I switched to healing during Curator's enrage, for example).

Remains to be seen how it goes with higher levels of gear and longer fights. I'm certainly not needing to chain-chug mana pots yet. By the same token, knowing that Hydross is the first fight in SSR and that he's nature immune half the time is not exactly a welcome mat for elemental shaman.

 

Archaleus

I respecced to 36/0/25 when the patch went live and have been doing Kara/Gruul's every reset since then. Who is online for me to bring for our second kara group is really the determining factor on me healing or dpsing. I can say that I have done both for all the trash and all the bosses, and have not experienced any debilitating problems concerning mana ( aside from Nightbane, I was slammed at work and did not finish the summoning quest this week ). Pre 2.0 I went oom pretty quickly, and would usually end up just offhealing on boss fights so as not to be a waste of a spot, but since the patch even on longer fights if I'm smart and pop either a dreamless sleep or keep a super mana in reserve I will end the fight with some blue left. My gear is decent, I cannot get a mh upgrade to save my soul, however with gear only getting better I feel pretty good about the spec.

Healing is also not a problem, my mh stigma continues with that set as well but I have not had any real problems with any of the encounters, Heroics, etc. Overall I am very pleased with the spec and the versatility it gives me. I greatly enjoy being someone that can swap roles on the fly depending on what the current situation calls for. Hopefully this continues to be the case through SSL and TK, nothing I have seen so far leads me to believe anything different but time will tell.

Rulers make the rules

 

panny

...how does being Enhancement instead of Elemental prevent you from switching gear? Granted, Elemental has Unrelenting Storm, but Enhancement has dual wielding healing weapons.

Isn't Elemental just "a Mage with totems and no CC"? Don't be stupid.

 

Vernichter

First of all, dual wielding healing weapons is a bit of an oddity. Blizzard changed the majority of their itemization such that +healing or +damage and healing weapons were main-hand only and not one-handed. The only major exceptions are the Ceremonial Kris and Thunderlord Scalpel/Vibro dagger. I would be surprised if these don't get corrected in a future patch.

Second of all, outside of a weapon swap, the rest of an enhancement shaman's gear is unlikely to support healing. If an enhancement shaman is trying to maximize their damage output, it is unlikely that their armor will have much in the way of +healing or +spell crit. There is a small amout of hybrid mail gear with +spell damage and melee stats like the cyclone and cataclysm sets, but there is no gear with pure +healing and melee stats. Yes, the shaman could mix and match healing and enhancement gear at the same time, but the result is that neither job wi