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03/16/07, 7:28 PM
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#16
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Bald Bull
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Enhancement Shamans are absolutely solid DPS. Having 1 or 2 available on fights where melee DPS shines is really nice, both for their damage and the damage they bring to their groups. What I don't think is smart is the trend I see with Alliance Shamans ALL speccing full DPS. 41+ in Enhance allows you to legitimately specialize and excel at a role, albeit at the cost of the talents in Restoration that make it a viable tree for healing. Spending more than 35-36 points in Elemental does not allow you to excel at a nuking role, and it carries the same penalties as a full Enhance build in terms of what you sacrifice in healing. Lightning Overload is terrible. It's better than nothing, but it's terrible. Totem of Wrath is good in a vacuum, but the fact that it's attached to 5 points of pure waste ruins it for me.
Some guilds have healers coming out their ears and never lack for that role. My guild is not one of those. I'm using a 36/0/25 build, which gives me 90% of the damage potential of Elemental with 80% of the healing potential of Restoration. If you have Healing Way and Nature's Swiftness, you can be competitive. Shamans speccing Totem of Wrath are really limiting their versatility...good luck solo healing the challenging Heroics. For me, there's so much content that's NOT 25-man raiding in TBC that a pure DPS build bogs you down. An Ele/Resto hybrid really lets the class's versatility shine. Speccing full Enhance is limiting, but the results of that specialization are so good that it's worth having one around.
When I've been DPSing (in cast-off gear, I'm about 100 +damage behind where I'd like to be gear-wise) I'm hard to touch in heroic 5-mans, and in Kharazan I get #2 or #3. And for the love of God, PLEASE add Nature to Curse of Elements.
Last edited by Ghando : 03/16/07 at 7:36 PM.
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03/16/07, 7:30 PM
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#17
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Soda Popinski
Tauren Druid
Twisting Nether (EU)
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Originally Posted by muwatallis
Darkstorm's "fantastic" Dmeters chart when they killed Gruul for the first time.
PS: Lylz is DW Enhancement.
God, i love these guys 
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2 Questions with that DMeter
#1 Druid = Feral? & how the hell could a Melee d/w Enhancement Shaman be that high and not over-agro the OT/MT? which I've seen happen with not great geared Enhancement Shamans on other encounters.
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03/16/07, 7:36 PM
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#18
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Essence
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Originally Posted by Kegsta
im playing elemental atm, at +850 LB damage and 32% crit + 5% LO self buffed is very nice, +9% hit from tallents (does my draenei aura effect myself does anyone know), this is just with blues, and not very hard to attain ones either http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/?#...krock&n=Kegsta. with a few more purples i can see ele shammys doing quite nasty amounts of damage, the main problem we have is we dont have curse of shadows / elixir of shadow power equivilent for raid dps.
id also like to see some more damage meters of a well geared ele dpsing in a 25 man
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CLOTH
I'm currently specced resto and terrible drop rates have forced me to settle for leather in a couple healing slots and take more gear with spirit than I'd like, but I've had no problem finding excellent mail in every slot for elemental.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/?#...anis&n=Shabadu for when armory updates with my elemenal gear loadout. I desperately need an upgrade in the glove and leg slot, as good as 2 piece tidefury is, an epic is worth putting a 80g spellthread on.
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03/16/07, 7:51 PM
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#19
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Piston Honda
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nothing wrong with cloth and leather, although i plan to get all mail eventually, bracers from heroic BF, belt and pants from heroic UB, just havent had the drops yet. The Kurenai Kilt is very nice tho for a blue rep item for just pure damage
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03/17/07, 4:18 AM
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#20
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
The Venture Co (EU)
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Originally Posted by Playered
2 Questions with that DMeter
#1 Druid = Feral? & how the hell could a Melee d/w Enhancement Shaman be that high and not over-agro the OT/MT? which I've seen happen with not great geared Enhancement Shamans on other encounters.
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Well, i think Niamee would be the true person to answer your question. I'm only a fan of that guild, since Al'akir was my very first realm to play. I'm not a member of DarkStorm.
Sulliwan, is a feral druid. Keep in mind that, this screenshot and therefore DPS results belong to the pre-v2.0.10 patch; where feral druids were not nerfed(Or as a druid, whatever you call it.) yet.
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Existence & Uniqueness
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03/17/07, 5:02 AM
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#21
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Such a Cassandra
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I had my first really full hitout in Kara tonight as an elemental, 37/0/24 (no lightning overload). I was being reasonably conservative, and wasn't using many buffs (food and adepts, basically, and major manas on longer boss fights, no need for supers). We went up to Prince (8% wipe and he bugged out, sigh; we'll be back tomorrow to finish).
I'd been in Kara briefly last week as elemental but only for some trash clearing and Aran. Previously I'd run Kara a bit as full resto.
For the overall run, our rogue and hunter creamed everyone, but duh (hi2u magic immune eels, plus they're our best geared guys). As far as DPS on most non-gimmick fights (including boss fights) went, our rogue was usually #1, me and the hunter and our best geared mage- full tailoring set, full spellstrike set, and pretty much the best of 5-mans and heroics- very close to each other. We had a bit of a revolving door of other mages and a lock, but none of them got close to me despite all having equal or better quality gear. And I still got off some NS healing waves and did some sustained healing here and there (I switched to healing during Curator's enrage, for example).
Remains to be seen how it goes with higher levels of gear and longer fights. I'm certainly not needing to chain-chug mana pots yet. By the same token, knowing that Hydross is the first fight in SSR and that he's nature immune half the time is not exactly a welcome mat for elemental shaman.
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03/17/07, 9:48 AM
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#22
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Hellscream
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I respecced to 36/0/25 when the patch went live and have been doing Kara/Gruul's every reset since then. Who is online for me to bring for our second kara group is really the determining factor on me healing or dpsing. I can say that I have done both for all the trash and all the bosses, and have not experienced any debilitating problems concerning mana ( aside from Nightbane, I was slammed at work and did not finish the summoning quest this week ). Pre 2.0 I went oom pretty quickly, and would usually end up just offhealing on boss fights so as not to be a waste of a spot, but since the patch even on longer fights if I'm smart and pop either a dreamless sleep or keep a super mana in reserve I will end the fight with some blue left. My gear is decent, I cannot get a mh upgrade to save my soul, however with gear only getting better I feel pretty good about the spec.
Healing is also not a problem, my mh stigma continues with that set as well but I have not had any real problems with any of the encounters, Heroics, etc. Overall I am very pleased with the spec and the versatility it gives me. I greatly enjoy being someone that can swap roles on the fly depending on what the current situation calls for. Hopefully this continues to be the case through SSL and TK, nothing I have seen so far leads me to believe anything different but time will tell.
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Rulers make the rules
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03/17/07, 1:09 PM
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#23
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Durnitol
The more I research the more I agree here. I was hoping that the spec in question 41/0/20 would have the most versatility. Some fights and trash where 6 healers is enough you DPS. On fights where ranged DPS is king you DPS. On fights where melee is king you heal. AE damage you heal, etc etc. Enhancement really is just a rogue with totems and no poisons.
Swap out the healing sets for the fights where needed.
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...how does being Enhancement instead of Elemental prevent you from switching gear? Granted, Elemental has Unrelenting Storm, but Enhancement has dual wielding healing weapons.
Isn't Elemental just "a Mage with totems and no CC"? Don't be stupid.
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03/17/07, 2:14 PM
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#24
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Piston Honda
Tauren Shaman
Baelgun (EU)
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Originally Posted by Panny
...how does being Enhancement instead of Elemental prevent you from switching gear? Granted, Elemental has Unrelenting Storm, but Enhancement has dual wielding healing weapons. Isn't Elemental just "a Mage with totems and no CC"? Don't be stupid.
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First of all, dual wielding healing weapons is a bit of an oddity. Blizzard changed the majority of their itemization such that +healing or +damage and healing weapons were main-hand only and not one-handed. The only major exceptions are the Ceremonial Kris and Thunderlord Scalpel/Vibro dagger. I would be surprised if these don't get corrected in a future patch.
Second of all, outside of a weapon swap, the rest of an enhancement shaman's gear is unlikely to support healing. If an enhancement shaman is trying to maximize their damage output, it is unlikely that their armor will have much in the way of +healing or +spell crit. There is a small amout of hybrid mail gear with +spell damage and melee stats like the cyclone and cataclysm sets, but there is no gear with pure +healing and melee stats. Yes, the shaman could mix and match healing and enhancement gear at the same time, but the result is that neither job will be performed exceptionally well.
By contrast, all elemental stats also benefit healing, with the exception of +spell hit. A shaman who is geared out for elemental will undoubtedly have stronger healer than a shaman geared out for enhancement. Thus the shift from damage to healing is more natural for an elemental shaman than an enhancement shaman.
Enhancement shaman may not be rogues with totems in the sense that they do have all the healing spells of a shaman, but when compared to the damage output in 25-man raiding, they certainly aren't as effective at role-switching mid-fight as elemental shaman.
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03/17/07, 7:52 PM
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#25
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Don Flamenco
Human Warrior
Eredar (EU)
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Originally Posted by Vernichter
By contrast, all elemental stats also benefit healing, with the exception of +spell hit. A shaman who is geared out for elemental will undoubtedly have stronger healer than a shaman geared out for enhancement. Thus the shift from damage to healing is more natural for an elemental shaman than an enhancement shaman.
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Well i think its a great different having 700 spelldamage and 25% spellcrit with mp5 only from UR and 1500 healing with 200 mp5.
A elemental shaman who is geared for doing the healers job won't stand much longer than an enhancer, dual wielding healer weapons. There isn't that much danger of abusing those tree weapons you've listed, since blizzard made all better ones mainhand only allready. I don't expect they may change them in near future. Well, 20-60 mp5 from UR (regarding points put in and your int raidbuffed) + stats of your shield vs 100 hp, 300 mana, 275 +heal, mp5 and the option to add a mana oil of any type. You can at least as enhancer get on par at your +heal rate with an int heavy resto shaman putting 5/5 in nature's blessing. For a "rogue with totems" that isn't that bad in my opinion, is it?
Of course, if something unexpected occurs, elemental may be the winner in regular fights. But it should not be a problem to bring in a second set for healing from 5 man heroics/good quest rewards if the enhancer is supposed to heal.
If the Ele won't pick a Hybrid Specc, what he will have to offer more than a enhancer could? Nothing more than the %crit of the tidal mastery talent.
An enhancer can pick about 48 pve talents in his main tree, but lacking 2-3% dodge plus mental quickness and getting healing focus instead should make him more usefull for offhealing and won't reduce his dps that much. So?
And a Resto/Elemental Hybrid can not get restorative totems + tide (the main reason for going that deep into resto imho), tidal mastery (more crits -> more damage & mana with elemental focus and more ancestral healing proccs while healing) and purification (the maybe biggest healing burst in resto tree for five points). Well, ok he could, but then he would have to drop lightning mastery instead, the biggest dps push (1/3.5=0.285 so ~ 29% more use of +spelldmg) for the main damage spells. Won't be a good deal, while he's maybe 60/40 or 75/25 of his time dealing damage, will it?
The only real reason a dps shaman has to think about is his lack of aggro reduce. Why he should drop a tranquil air totem for a group of mages with invisibility and warlocks with soulshatter? They all want the real benefits of a elemental shaman, and thats in first place wrath of air and totem of wrath, not manaspring. Missing 101 spelldamge for 5 people only because one can't handle it can be a disaster.
Well, as a enhancer, your problem might be even bigger. An elemental can have a little lo/crit row but ive he see's that he might stop and because he knows about that he won't get to 129% aggro all the time. But as melee u only need 110% to get the aggro and windfury is not that controlable that you may could wish to. 5% more aggro reduce with spirit weapons won't be a big deal while wielding 2x 88+ DPS Weapons and a hitting with ton of attackpower and buffed to the sky.
I'm really wondering about how this Lylz could manage it? A teddy should not do that much damage on gruul while offtanking with "endless" rage from hurtful strikes so that the shaman could go all way in, it's all limited by the aggro of the mt as well. And if Sulliwan was the mt, who should get rage to top the shaman's threat? As it seemed to happen before the druid nerf, so wasn't that the time shamans unleashed rage talent was buggy while producing hate every time applying?
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The shaman will no longer generate additional threat when "Unleashed Rage" triggers.
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Dire Bear Form" now grants 25% increased stamina instead of 25% increased health. In addition, the armor bonus has been reduced from 450% to 400%.
(... and so on, shoudn't be necessary to refresh all of the harmfull strike against the treelover).
Someone claimed here even with all known consumeables, a elemental can only outlast at full dps until 4 minutes. Well, add some movement, dmg stops etc staying at 6,7 as end of the line. A shadow priest with regular gear and at full dps cycle can manage 14 minutes with ease, about 18 till 20 at maximum with a little lesser mp5 for the group (but still chaincasting), check spreadsheet and play with it.
An enhancer can of course last forever, with a lot of %hit from talents and some more from items he can get a lot of mana back all to minutes from shamanistic rage and his main damage is comming from whitehits/wf proccs for no mana (about 70-80% with good weapons). And just think about adding judgement of wisdom (50% procchance, no ppm limiter), what i didn't find in many spreadsheets until now, so that no mana issues should come up even with two 2.9 weapons at ~ 25% crit and 16-18% hit at any time while dealing damage.
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03/17/07, 10:45 PM
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#26
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Don Flamenco
Draenei Shaman
Tichondrius
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Originally Posted by Myul
stuff
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An enhancement shaman is a rogue with totems because as our DPS increases from gear, our HPS and HPM stay completely static, and thus at some breakpoint (very early on) it becomes inefficient for the raid to have them to heal at all, and it should only be done when dps is impossible (flying phases, etc) or if it is a life or death scenario. For the former, a gear swap is viable, but for the latter it is not as you cannot afford any GCDs when dropping an emergency heal. Enhancement shamans also have very low int and a very small amount of "spare" mana to use between shamanistic rage timers.
An elemental shaman is NOT a mage with totems, because as their DPS increases, their HPS and HPM increase as well, albeit at a slower rate than it would with healing gear. In any fight where there is occasional aoe damage that needs to be healed up, or any fight with a deaggro, elementals tossing heals can make sense. Elemental shamans also have a much larger pool of mana to work with, which they slowly drain over minutes, as opposed to the very unstable mana levels of an enhance shaman.
It's clear to me that except in extreme situations, enhancement shamans casting heal spells are gimping themselves. This is not true at all of elemental shamans.
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03/17/07, 10:56 PM
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#27
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Bald Bull
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I don't doubt that an Elemental geared Shaman would be better than an Enhancement geared Shaman for healing. But Durnitol was talking about changing roles in advance, not switching in the middle of the fight.
And when it does come to spot healing, I find it's easy to see when heals are best used because of my close proximity to the boss. In addition, I don't need to cancel a currently casting spell to heal. In the cases when you want a damage dealer healing, timing is probably more important than longevity.
Last edited by panny : 03/17/07 at 11:01 PM.
Reason: Expanding
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03/17/07, 11:02 PM
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#28
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his surgical quality
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Originally Posted by mek
...Elementals are better at tossing emergency heals than enhancement...
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Fine, that's true. But I'd like to emphasize that given a gear swap, a 41 elemental is just as bad (or good) at healing as a 41 enhancement is. Neither build gets purification or healing way, or imp chain heal or nature's blessing, for that matter. And I don't think that enhancement shaman are any less valuable to the raid as a result, since enhancement buffs their group to a greater extent than an elemental buffs theirs.
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03/18/07, 12:07 AM
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#29
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Bald Bull
Night Elf Druid
Stormreaver
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Originally Posted by muwatallis
Sulliwan, is a feral druid. Keep in mind that, this screenshot and therefore DPS results belong to the pre-v2.0.10 patch; where feral druids were not nerfed(Or as a druid, whatever you call it.) yet.
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Heh, just a note 2.0.10 was about a 1% reduction in Catform DPS. The one thing I note on that DM is the DPS classes don't look to be performing that well guess no Shadow Priest which explains the big drop in Warlock DPS I'm used to and slightly on the mage drop. Our Enhancement Shaman does quite well I would say though behind the core DPS classes (not by much make note and his Heroism, +10% AP and Totems for the melee DPS group definately makes up for the slight deficiency).
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03/18/07, 9:41 AM
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#30
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Don Flamenco
Troll Shaman
Al'Akir (EU)
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I'm really wondering about how this Lylz could manage it? A teddy should not do that much damage on gruul while offtanking with "endless" rage from hurtful strikes so that the shaman could go all way in, it's all limited by the aggro of the mt as well. And if Sulliwan was the mt, who should get rage to top the shaman's threat? As it seemed to happen before the druid nerf, so wasn't that the time shamans unleashed rage talent was buggy while producing hate every time applying?
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...what? I think you are confused. Nobody ever claimed Sulliwan was the MT and, frankly, bear form damage has never been THAT overpowered.
Last edited by Miaxi : 03/18/07 at 10:00 AM.
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