Block % only on hits? - Page 2

Iol · 03/27/07, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by bobtheorc

Bog Lord hits Bobtheorc: 7500ish Crushing (877 blocked)

Was it a crit or really a crush? According to your armory you have 474 def wich still leaves room for crit... Try to screen shot it if it's a common thing happenning.

Zamaar · 03/27/07, 4:48 PM

Hmm Aren't bog lords level 72 and there for can't crush?

bobtheorc · 03/28/07, 2:43 AM

Hmm, i must have just been seeing things cause i never got a crushing blow tonight. I bet it was a crit I misread. I'll post a screenshot if i ever get one but a lvl 71 should be too low to crush me (though i wonder if he gains levels as he grows bigger).

Louviel · 03/29/07, 11:32 AM

Has any conclusion been made from all this?
Has Tifi's claim been debunked? Is there any theory that describes what Tifi saw?

Perhaps +block rating is not working correctly? Perhaps Tifi's parser is incorrectly logging blocks?

Or can we lay this claim to rest?

Emeraude · 03/29/07, 11:41 AM

Well...I know from my personal experiences with Satrina's Combat Monitor that blocked attacks would show up, but there was another category for "full blocked" attacks that wouldn't be included in the blocked attacks section. That could be the parser error he's seeing....Just speculation, I'm still waiting on the 2.0.0 WoW version myself.

Louviel · 03/29/07, 11:51 AM

Satrina? Author of the EvilEmpire warrior guide?

Ah.. I see she is back playing WoW.. This is good news for all Warriors.

Branar · 03/29/07, 12:13 PM

While I can't shed light on Tifi's question, I will say that:

Though i didn't take a screenshot, i recal blocking several crushing blows from the Bog Lords in Heroic Underbog as well as on the Romio and Juliet fight in Karazhan. With trinkets going, the combat log looked something like:

Bog Lord hits Bobtheorc: 7500ish Crushing (877 blocked)

If you're talking about the Underbog Lords towards the end of the instance (and not the Bog Giants), they have hit me for over 10k non crit, non crush after they've grown a few times. This was back when my gear was significantly worse than it is now, but 7500 (well, 8377 really) is totally in the realm of possibility for a *normal* hit from one of them. Especially if you're sacrificing some armor for your very high block value.

Apate · 03/29/07, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Louviel

Satrina? Author of the EvilEmpire warrior guide?

Ah.. I see she is back playing WoW.. This is good news for all Warriors.

Fantastic, maybe SatrinaBuffMonitor will be alive and kicking once more

EDIT: Hooray, I just found it!

Tifi · 04/02/07, 10:06 AM

Ok so I did yet another test. I deleted the data on Demon Hunter Supplicants in the CombatMonitor addon, and redid the test with different gear. Those mobs hit fast and miss a lot, so I often fought 4 at the same time. Again, no shield block used.

Stats vs Demon Hunter Supplicant (dual wield, lvl 70)

       observed my stats  obs%    err. %
Swings	10498		
Miss    3120    29.36%   29.72%  -0.36%
Dodge   1360    13.01%   12.95%   0.06%
Parry   1714    15.93%   16.33%  -0.40%
Block   2265    22.34%   21.58%   0.76%
Hit     2039    19.36%   19.42%   0.06%

Miss = 5%+19%(dw)+5.36%, Hit = 100%-Miss-Dodge-Parry-Block.

So there is still some error in the block section, but it's small, and the one-roll theory fits much better than a block-on-a-second-roll theory. I guess the results from my previous tests can be explained by variance, i.e. not enough data.

I've read some discussions about the one-roll theory, and it has been said that Blizzard did it because it's less CPU intense. This might be true to some extent, although I don't think a multi-roll combat system would be that much more expensive. One argument I have not yet read in favor of the one-roll theory is that it makes the numbers much easier to understand. As in: 1% is 1%. Let's consider a multi-roll system, for example 1st roll for miss, if not miss then 2nd roll for dodge, if not dodge then 3rd roll for parry, and so on. With the above stats, what would be my total dodge rate? (100%-29.36%)*13.01% = 9.19%. So 1% dodge rate would be 0.71% total dodge, depending on miss. What would be my total parry rate? (100%-29.36%)*(100%-13.01%)*15.93% = 9.79%, or 1% parry is 0.58% total parry rate, depending on miss and dodge. In a multi-roll system like that it'd be pretty damn hard to compare items, because stats would influence each other: miss influences your total dodge rate, parry rate, etc., dodge influences the total parry rate, block rate. Making a game that is hard to understand is probably not what Blizzard wanted to do with WoW.

Getting crushed with SB up: I found several occurrences, but all could somehow be explained by lag, fear, stun, or being Little Red Riding Hood. And I still have less than 25% block rate (19-20%). It might just be impossible to get crushed with SB up and more than 25% avoidance.