Nicely done, Lynrd. I'll give it a test drive and see how well it plays.

Question:
I've noticed the difference between the Auchaeni Death Shroud (15 agi, 15 stam, 36 AP and 17 hitrating) and the Cloak of Malice (21 agi, 18 stam, 38 AP) being opposite what I thought it'd be (death shroud has a higher ranking over the cloak).

I'm going to assume it's because of the hit rating. What about those of us who are at the "max" (142 hit, I'm assuming) -- can the addon be modified so it'll take that into consideration and reign back its rating some? I would assume it's weight would be less if the hit didn't matter.

Nix it, I just saw I can tweak my own through the interface. /haep - had to find that little guy's slash command =P

I took the estimated value of damage (basically multiplied my damage by 1.2061 - crit rate is 20.61 (multiplied multi by 1.3561 because of imp barrage)) and used that to calculate the importance of hit rating instead of not including crit, which ended up being significantly higher than what it was. I believe this is more accurate.

Anyway, if anyone was interested in my results:

Using 4 autos, 4 steadies, 1.5 arcanes and 1 multi in 10.5 seconds at 1844 RAP and 20.61% crit, with telescopic sharprifle.

I didn't include stam, resil, mp5 or mana from int because I can see that on my own.

Edit: I used the actual values for the shots from the formulas in Lactose's post on the EU forums.

This DPS is all before armor reduction. Would that skew my data at all? I know it would make Arcane Shot a little more valuable but since it's mostly equally applied I didn't bother too much with it.

if you redownload the addon you can rejoice

Thanks much for the changes. :]

You seem to have forgotten +8agi gem on your list. Nice stuff though the +hit value of course changes a bit.

I'm not great at math, but mp/5 is entirely too situational imo(like Eej mentioned) to make it worth calculating. There's plenty of consumables, abilities, talents(Thrill of the Hunt anyone?) etc. that can easily replace mp/5 on gear. So while it's incredibly important to have enough mana regen, the stat shouldn't be valued too highly on gear, since it has so many subsitutes and provides diminishing returns(unlike AP or crit).

Also, while crit % does suffer from resilience, I do not know of mobs having resilience, so you can probably ignore that for PvE calculations. In PvP, things are a lot more subjective, and I'd argue that crit is still incredibly important, and that resilience doesn't change that very much(from what I know about resilience at least). And for PvE, it seems that the additional damage gained from things like GftT procs shouldn't throw off your calculations too much.

A very helpful tool for this sort of discussion is one of the various "expose ilvl" mods, some of the better ones even show the 'calculated ilvl' which gives you an idea about how well the budget was (mis)spent. That + pawn or an AEP value gives you a concrete way to judge "what tier was this item intended for" which can be helpful in observing blizzard's thoughts on progression and "how well does it mesh with my personal needs" which is probably what you base your decision on (or "what percentage of that budget is well spent?").


At the end of the day, every class is trying to maximize it's effective itembudget on equipped items in the hope that such a maximization will increase their applied power in game situations they care about. While the various statmods will change for each class (intellect goes to zero for warriors, str goes to zero for hunters) and situation the basic metric of "is this well budgetted for my needs, ok now does it exceed the budget of the item I am wearing?" seems to be the standard method.

AEP is an interesting metric though, and certainly effective enough (while maintaining a nice general applicability) to be useful. Bravo.

It seems the Savagery enchant (70 AP 2H) isn't being calculated.

I have moved this mod out to official mod hosts. I will be taking it off the temp hosting pretty soon. Its already in the ace2 system, so if you sync off that you should be always up to date.

http://www-en.curse-gaming.com/files...005/hunteraep/
http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=4226

I will look into the Savagery bug.

I don't use the mod (using Pawn right now) but I did test it out. One thing that I think is missing is the ability to set up multiple scenarios on the tooltip, like "AEP(hit capped)"

This also helps when looking at gear with specific sets. Marksman int=>rap conversion is a pretty important consideration when evaluating similar gear in a slot.

Just got pointed here while at work, so I don't have time to read into and analyze everything that's been said, but I'll try to get to some of it.

To answer LurchDawg's question, the item values section that was copy-and-pasted is wrong and in need of updating. That was creating using the original set of numbers before I reduced the significance of MP5.

Eej, I respect your contributions overall to hunter math, and agree with you that a simplified point value is system is always going to be flawed. The reason I bothered with this is because more concrete math cannot be created without resorting to a spreadsheet. If I'm looking at an item that just dropped, and I need to decide if it's an upgrade when my old item has agility, int, and hit rating, and the new item has crit rating, attack power, and MP5, how do I decide which is better? For the first six weeks of the expansion, I simply had no idea, and in retrospect, I see that I've lost a lot of potentially very good quest rewards because of my haphazard guessing. Now I have some baseline...and thanks to Arcuss, I don't even have to get out my calculator.

Hit rating is proving problematic. While if you are NOT capped, hit rating is very important, I'm finding it extremely easy to get the hit rating needed especially if you decide to use some rogue leather. Rogue items are just flooded with the stuff, and if you hate int/MP5, you're going to be using a lot of rogue-esque items. As such, I may very well opt to lower the value on hit rating, but not without discussing it first since the values are beyond just me now. Again, this is really just because hit rating is far too abundant.

Trohck, I don't normally read the EJ forums. I see a link to here every great once in a while that I follow, but that's about it. I don't know the hawk vs viper thread you're talking about, but the more time I spend in the expansion, the more I'm inclined to agree, which was not at all the case while I was still grinding to 70 and used my Power-Infused Mushroom religiously. Yes, I realize that the numbers are for one particular situation in a large multi-dimensional space, which is why later in the TKA thread, I actually work through the whole thing in terms of variables instead of arbitrary values...I still wasn't able to nail down a good MP5 value, though.

Cranch, I am one of the admins at Allakhazam. You are not the only one interested in getting sockets put up on the advanced search feature, but I'm going to have to really rattle a few chains to get it done right now, as I'm not one of the database programmers.

And for those trying to downplay the significance of MP5...that's a playstyle argument. There's a reason I've completely left stamina off the radar. PvE-only players value it fairly low, PvP-only players tend to put it before all else. However, I think there is some cause to believe MP5 is useful to everyone, even if the regen from int is not since not everyone will be running viper. You do not die within 3 minutes every time you're in a battleground, and you also probably don't stop to drink all that often. When I'm running an instance, I prefer mana regen to sitting in the back with the casters, especially if the group is having me pull. For outdoor PvE, it should speak for itself.


And for everyone who has replied, thank you for your praise and/or criticism. Even if I may disagree with you at first, I do take everything that is said to heart, and the alternative of sheer silence is the part that can drive mad anyone who works on any kind of public project. Thank you also to Arcuss for his mod work; I may have conjured up a few numbers, but you are the one who has actually given them much meaning.

Can't say if or when I'll be back to check on follow-ups, but I'm sure the TKA folks will let me know if anything major comes up over here.