Nich

I fail at running numbers since I left Uni a few years ago - is there any word on whether SoV or SoR is preferred for tanking bosses, in terms of threat generated? Specifically the judgements involved (JoV landing for more) vs reckoning making use of SoR and, once the stack is at 5, being wasted on SoV?


And, taking into account my current every-day tanking set, is there a good upgrade for a tanking trinket other than Dabiri's Enigma? I'd certainly like to get it, but at the same time, Starcaller's Plated Legguards is a lot better than the low 60s socketed healing pants I curreny equip when not tanking, especially for presence of stam.


Appologies if this has been covered elsewhere, search wasn't bringing much up on the issue.

 

Ragnor

Depends on the item level of the boss/mob you are fighting your spell hit rating your weapon speed and the length of the fight.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

www.retpaladin.com

 

• Nite_Moogle

Mispost, please delete. :/

 

Cathela

Get Dabiri. It's fantastic for a paladin tank.

Starcaller's Legs are only an upgrade over the Consortium legs if you have Illumination, which you won't have if you're serious about tanking.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Ragnor

Hello friend

People are reporting good results with the 2.7 speed lower city exalted 1h mace with +150 dmg and 22stm. The speed means it has a 90% chance to proc the sov debuff. I find with 1.8 type speed weapons like cont blade sov can and will fall off at times.

Combo'ing SoV/JoV and SoR:
Ideally you could start with a Avengers Shield, then JoR then use SoV till 5 stacked, switch to SoR for ~10sec then back to SoV to refresh the stack and to use JoV, then back to SoR for ~10sec.

The sov stack stays on for 12sec after the last SoV proc, so theoretically you can actually use both but it's tricky timing it because the combat log gives no indication of SoV applications after 5 stacked so you might end up losing the stack if you time it wrong

Someone was looking writing a mod which was a SoV debuff timer/tracker I've lost the link so I have no idea how far they got overcoming the above problem.

Trinkets:

This trinket is hot for a paladin tank if you already have over 495 def

Figurine of the Colossus
http://www.thottbot.com/i27529
aka 4% more block

... but Dabiri's is probably better. I'd get Dabiri's over the healing legs, there are loads of ok healing legs and not many godly tanking trinkets.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

www.retpaladin.com

 

PsiVen

You're very close to the point where you need no pots or activated abilities to remove Crushings (at a glance you need .8% more avoidance/block?) so Dabiri won't do much for you compared to the Adamantine Figurine.

If I had access to Styleen's, I wouldn't replace it with any of the tanking trinkets I've seen in TBC. It still might be nice to have Dabiri around for, say, Hydross adds where you can't block.


As for SoV vs. SoR, I personally hold that Continuum Blade is the best tankadin weapon yet created and it's simply too fast to make Vengeance work. SoV supposedly yields higher threat if the stack never drops, but many encounters include some effect (stun, knockback) that gives you only 1-2 quick swings to refresh the stack, with a low chance of success.

 

Thelyna

In a tank'n'spank fight where you're never off target and never stunned, never feared, never out of melee range etc. SoV/JoV is better than SoR/JoR (generally). However, as soon as you lose a stack of the SoV dot, your holy damage (= your threat) just went out the window. SoR, on the other hand, is relatively idiot-proof.

On the topic of gear .... I managed to get a Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch a few weeks back, and I love it. If that's not an option (i.e. your tanks actually know how awesome that much dodge rating is and/or you can't reliably kill Moroes (not that that resembles my current raid group at all *shifty look*), Dabiri's is good, but your Adamantite Figurine is fine.

Comparing Starcallers to Consortium Plated Legguards, if you have decent gems in the CP legs Starcallers really isn't a huge upgrade (decent = 2x Royal Nightseye and a Luminuous Noble Topaz). I took Starcaller over Dabiri's because I'm a healer that tanks sometimes. If you're a tank that heals sometimes, I'd take Dabiris, resocket CPL with good gems and call it done. Consortium Plated are definitely good enough to go through Karazhan with, and there's a very nice pair of healing legs from the chess event (IIRC - someone correct me?).

Starcallers:
968 Armor
+18 Intellect
+27 Stamina
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 88.
Equip: Restores 7 mana per 5 sec.
Equip: Improves spell critical strike rating by 17.

Consortium Plated
866 Armor
+23 Intellect
Red Socket (+9 heal, +2mp5)
Yellow Socket (+9 heal, +4int)
Blue Socket (+9 heal, +2 mp5)
Socket Bonus: +9 Healing
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 51.
Equip: Restores 9 mana per 5 sec.

In changing from Consortium to Starcallers you get:
+102 armor, +27 stamina, -9 int, +1 heal, +17 spellcrit, -6 mp5

If anything, for a prot paladin healing, Starcallers are a *downgrade* because of the lack of mp5.

 

Nich

Ah, cheers guys, I'd forgotten the exact stats on Starcallers when cf Consortium :<


With the spelldamage weapons, I guess I'm a little lazy in wanting one choice for every tanking encounter :\ My understanding of the numbers tho', is that, while yes, SoV is 20 ppm, and thus the 2.7s LC weapon will both do more threat and refresh the stack more reliably, the 1.8s CoT sword has spell hit, miniscule as it is (and yet one of the few items I have with it -_-), and you'd need to be quite unlucky to get a string of misses, resists and non-procs, when compared to the 2.7s.

I have thought of flipping between SoV/JoV and SoR - especially when reckoning is up, but it seems too unreliable. If I'm mashing cooldowns to put out threat, and monitoring the GCD to keep HS up, I'm usually not looking at the mob to see when the last little 'flash' of SoV proc'ing occurred. And, with the judgement CD being reasonably short, I actually struggle to remember to swap back in time so that I can do more than just JoV and then hope my next SoV keeps the stack alive :<

Not to mention that, if I remember numbers, the LC will not be able to take full advantage of Reckoning >.> And, if there are stuns and such in the encounter, then it's GG trying to JoV, SoR for a few hits (~3 hits for 9 seconds), then swap back to SoV, hope it procs, SoV and repeat again, in the same way that you'll have fun just keeping SoV up. Especially with a shaman in my group, I'm finding that on non-trivial trash, and bosses, I tend to use SoV, and if it falls off, or I'm interrupted a lot, I'll just swap to SoR. SoV at a 5 stack makes AW much more meaningful, tho', IMO.

As for a timer, Ragnor (I still owe you some BM runs, hit me up!), I'm hoping they implement it into Chronometer at some point.

re: trinkets - I'd totally forgotten that SH still had loot for me :| I'll replace Adamantine with Dabiri, and grab the Figurine (I possibly always ignore this because I see the name, see BoP and assume it's crafted o.0) for 'ooer' moments. Until I can get the trinket from Moroes, anyway.

With my luck, however, I'll never see Figurine of the Colossus drop, even after well over a dozen runs - in the same way that Breastplate of Many Graces refuses to drop >.<

 

◊ Wraithlin

It doesnt, but most people arent willing to do a poper simulation of SoV so we end up with alot of dubious mathcraft based about stacks never dropping, being resisted, and so on. the key point to note is that (as far as I know, and despite asking several times Ive never been shown anything to the contrary), SoR procs cannot be resisted while SoV procs can (DoT mechanics: you can resist the application as well as individual ticks).

Paladin: Seal Mechanics
Post 30.

I Still have the QBasic programme on my home computor, so I can rerun the simulations with any conbination of + damage, weapon speed, and mob avoidance. I believe my new version also simulates the judgement application.

 

Fiola

SoR procs may not be fully resisted, but they will still suffer from level-based partial resists.