Curse of Weakness - Page 3

SchLing · 04/30/07, 7:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dots

Demo Shout has nothing to do with Commanding or Battle Shout. Only those 2 are actual buffs and a warrior can only buff either of those 2 for their group.

That is true, but I was thinking more of using his rage on aggro gaining abilities rather than the shout. In addition that a CoW is easier to keep up than a demo shout. All in all phase two goes a lot smoother for us when I do it

wiseman · 04/30/07, 2:03 PM

The Curse of Weakness tooltip claims it reduces damage, not attack power, by a fixed amount. This came as a surprise to me.

I could be wrong, as I so often am, but on bosses with a high attack speed and few instant abilities Curse of Weakness would be the obvious choice? And on a boss like King Maulgar who attacks slowly but has very hard hitting instants, Improved Demo shout would be the preferred choice.

Assuming this, is Improved Demo shout really worth the 5 points for a Maintank? I sacrifice Improved TC and Anger Management to get Improved Demoshout at the moment because none of our DPS warriors have it.

Thanks,
-Link

doogless · 04/30/07, 3:15 PM

The tooltip on the debuff is wrong, it decreases AP. When they changed the curse from damage on each attack to AP reduction somehow that slipped through the cracks.

Ikajo · 04/30/07, 3:18 PM

I see no indication that the CoW debuff description is anything else but a typo. Both thottbot and wowhead list the effect of the debuff as "Apply Aura: Mod Attack Power" (opposed to "Apply Aura: Mod Damage Done"). In addition, i hope a damage-reducing debuff wouldn't overwrite an AP debuff with a better effect.

@Dots: Could you verify that you really saw a 20% reduction in damage from Imp. Demo Shout on the level 73 scorpid (in Blade's Edge i assume - was using the same mob for CoW tests)?
I was getting the following data on that try:

Base Damage: 345-489 (level 73) --------------- 417
Reduced Damage: 285-429 (CoW -350) -------- 357 [-14.39%]

Dots · 04/30/07, 6:27 PM

Actually I only tried regular DS on the scorpion because i didn't have the talent. I tested Imp DS on lurker, but the hunter just gave me rounded numbers since it was a learning attempt. It turned out to be 20ish% there.

I dragged a warrior with Imp DS to the scorpion today and you are right about the cap there at least.
Regular DS: 289-433
Imp DS: 285-429

I will try to get some exact numbers from lurker next reset, unless someone else beats me to it. Should be easier now that we got it down.

Vazu · 04/30/07, 6:44 PM

It really just depends who all you have for Warlocks and why you need to use it.

Without checking, I believe Imp. Demo Shout is more effective than a non-Imp. CoW spell. Improved it's still only marginally better. As long as your tank is diligent about keeping their AP shouts up, I would say go for a curse which boosts DPS in almost every situation.

..that said, CoW is really fantastic in PVP to toss on a Rogue who isn't your first assist target. A nice little wedge of -320 AP can sometimes mean the difference between life and death if a healer gets CC'd.

My 2C

Psy · 04/30/07, 6:54 PM

Originally Posted by Vazu

Without checking, I believe Imp. Demo Shout is more effective than a non-Imp. CoW spell.

To be precise, Curse of Weakness is -350 AP and for two talent points can be improved to -420 AP (350, 385, 420)
Demoralizing Shout is -300 AP, and for five talent points can be improved to -420 AP (300, 324, 348, 372, 396, 420)

Dots · 05/02/07, 2:55 PM

Ok, so today I did the lurker test again. I don't know how I got those numbers last time, maybe the hunter mixed something up because it was done in a hurry or whatever. Anyways, here is the result i got from a hunter today, could have saved me a lot of headaches when I was reconsidering my spec. :P

The Lurker Below, lvl 73 elite boss
Base Damage: 11948-16895
Demo Shout (-300AP): 9920-14817 (-14.24%)
Imp Demo Shout (-420AP): 9792-14696 (-15.1%)

dojke · 05/02/07, 5:27 PM

Interesting. The next logical thing to check would be: is this a global 15% cap (ie lowered from 30%), or a consequence of the scaling of atk to level 73?

I guess I really should try and find another warrior account to test with.

Ikajo · 05/02/07, 6:25 PM

I still expect a cap on AP reduction .. from the new data one could interpolate a max AP reduction of ~319ap for 15.1% - my old data for the regular level 73 scorpid (with a much more narrow damage range) yielded a cap of ~324ap.

Still interesting that you got a higher percental reduction on Lurker than i got on all my tries so far, but as dojke already mentioned one might attribute that to atk scaling.

If the cap exists though, only one point in Imp. Demo Shout is useful for pve then .. sad enough

TheOnly · 05/02/07, 8:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dots

Ok, so today I did the lurker test again. I don't know how I got those numbers last time, maybe the hunter mixed something up because it was done in a hurry or whatever. Anyways, here is the result i got from a hunter today, could have saved me a lot of headaches when I was reconsidering my spec. :P

The Lurker Below, lvl 73 elite boss
Base Damage: 11948-16895
Demo Shout (-300AP): 9920-14817 (-14.24%)
Imp Demo Shout (-420AP): 9792-14696 (-15.1%)

THat all depends, the improved means you can use CoR.

Ikajo · 05/02/07, 8:51 PM

.. given you have a lock to spare (we tend to lack reliable warlocks at times)

But granted, i forgot about that .. assume a possible cap around 325ap and a max AP reduction from one spell of 420 - CoR Rank 4 would just fit in there. I doubt i get the chance to get a hunter, a lock and a warrior with Imp. Demo Shout in one place for testing any time soon .. if anyone could try that, I'd be quite interested in the findings

Kahra · 05/03/07, 12:27 PM

I still expect a cap on AP reduction.. from the new data one could interpolate a max AP reduction of ~319ap for 15.1% - my old data for the regular level 73 scorpid (with a much more narrow damage range) yielded a cap of ~324ap.

I would be really surprised if there is cap on the ap reduction itself rather than an indirect cap due to the mob hitting 0 ap. As for experimenting... one good way is using enslaved elite demons. With the right addon, it is possible to observe the stats directly, just as if the demon was an ordinary pet.

I'm pretty sure there are bosses (and elites for that matter) where you do get the full benefit from imp. DS or imp. CoW; the main factor is probably which basic template the mob is based upon. The amount of AP an enslaved demon gets from strength and agility depends on the class of the NPC, for instance.

Kahra · 05/04/07, 12:23 PM

The enslavable imps in Karazhan have 411 AP (not that they actually melee anything, but still).

Roana · 05/07/07, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by Kahra

With the right addon, it is possible to observe the stats directly, just as if the demon was an ordinary pet.

Don't you have to account for the attack power bonus the pet gets from the warlock's spell damage bonus, though?