Curse of Weakness - Page 5

Squashed · 04/15/08, 6:13 PM

As a possible explanation on the AP Reduction cap, here are some results from dinking around on my warlock with the mobs out by the forge camps in western Nagrand.

Felguard Legionnaire (67 Elite)
Base Stats:
154 Strength
112 Agility
291 Stamina
32 Intellect
93 Spirit
Combat Stats:
288 Attack Power (note: 154 * 2 - 10 = 288)
420.5 DPS

Stats with Curse of Weakness (-350 AP)
Base Stats:
SAME
Combat Stats:
0 Attack Power (AP can't go negative, effective reduction of 288 AP)
355.3 DPS (DPS to AP ratio seems to be ~0.2264)

Stats with Curse of Recklessness (+135 AP)
Base Stats:
SAME
Combat Stats:
423 Attack Power (AP increases by the expected 135 AP)
451.1 DPS (Using the same DPS to AP ratio, the expected value for DPS matches the observed value)

Ga'narg Tinkerer (67 Non-elite)
Base Stats:
146 Strength
102 Agility
266 Stamina
125 Intellect
115 Spirit
Combat Stats:
272 Attack Power (Again, 146 * 2 - 10 = 272)
87.8 DPS

Stats with Curse of Weakness (-350 AP)
Base Stats:
SAME
Combat Stats:
0 Attack Power (Again, AP has a floor of 0)
73.9 DPS (DPS to AP ratio seems to be ~0.0511 in this case)

Stats with Curse of Reckless (+135 AP)
Base Stats:
SAME
Combat Stats:
407 Attack Power (Again, we observe an increase of the expected 135 AP)
94.7 DPS (The ratio of 0.0511 fits here too)

Without going and retrieving data over the hundreds of demons available, the following seems true:

The formula for a Demon's Attack Power is STRENGTH * 2 - 10.
The formula for a Demon's DPS is BASE_DPS + DPS_to_AP * AP.
BASE_DPS and DPS_to_AP are not the same for all Demons.

Johnneke · 04/16/08, 9:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ikajo

Recently, I was doing some own tests on this matter (using Beast Lore to observe effects of Demo Roar, Screech and later Improved Demo Roar) - basically to predict the effect of an added CoW on Maulgar. Surprisingly, my tests seemed to indicate a possible hardcap for AP reduction on mobs. (Test was done on Uvuros - level 70 elite quest mob in Shadowmoon Valley.)

* Base Damage: ----------------------------- 2272-3214 --------- Average: 2743
* Screech (-210ap): ------------------------- 2002-2944 --------- Average: 2473 [-9.84%]
* Demoralizing Roar (-248ap): ------------- 1953-2895 --------- Average: 2424 [-11.63%]
* Improved Demoralizing Roar (-347ap): - 1881-2823 --------- Average: 2352 [-14.25%]
* Screech + Demoralizing Roar: ----------- 1881-2823 --------- Average: 2352 [-14.25%]
* Screech + Improved Demoralizing Roar: 1881-2823 --------- Average: 2352 [-14.25%]

This comes in nice in line with what is known from various resources on the net concerning ap reduction. Ive made a write up for my guild which I also posted here but I'll put it in here again (Sources are included so look it up for yourself aswell if you want to find out more):

What we know!

Maximum Attack Power Reduction on Raid Bosses: 340AP

Roar, Demoralizing Shout & Curse of Weakness DONT Stack
Screech (Owl/Bat Hunter Pet) is the ONLY AP Reducement Ability that does stack with the above

Attack Power Reduction from Roar: 240AP
Attack Power Reduction from Demoralizing Shout 0/5: 300AP
Attack Power Reduction from Demoralizing Shout 2/5: 348AP
Attack Power Reduction from Demoralizing Shout 5/5: 420AP
Attack Power Reduction from Curse of Weakness 0/2: 350AP
Attack Power Reduction from Screech (Rank 5): 210AP

Attack Power Increase from Curse of Recklessness: 135AP

What can we make from this!

A Raid Boss Without Curse of Recklessness has: 340AP
- Debuffed with 0/5 Demoralizing Shout: 40AP
- Debuffed with 2/5 Demoralizing Shout: 0AP
- Debuffed with 5/5 Demoralizing Shout: 0AP
- Debuffed with Roar: 100AP
- Debuffed with 0/2 Curse of Weakness: 0AP

A Raid Boss with the Debuff Curse of Recklessness has: 475AP
- Debuffed with 0/5 Demoralizing Shout: 165AP (With Screech: 0AP)
- Debuffed with 2/5 Demoralizing Shout: 117AP (With Screech: 0AP)
- Debuffed with 5/5 Demoralizing Shout: 55AP (With Screech: 0AP)
- Debuffed with Roar: 235AP (With Screech: 20AP)
- Debuffed with 0/2 Curse of Weakness: 125AP (With Screech: 0AP)

Synopsis

- When we have a hunter with a Owl or Bat pet with Screech (Rank 5) Curse of Recklessness can be used safely on ALL bosses while still getting the MAXIMUM Attack Power Reduction Possible (Exempt: Roar)

- When we do NOT have a hunter with a Owl or Bat pet with Screech (Rank 5) Curse of Recklessness can be used safely on most bosses depending on if we have a warrior with 5/5 imp ds or not. Bosses we do NOT want to use CoR on currently are: Archimonde, Azgalor, Mother Shahraz and Illidan, Reliquary of Sould (Phase 1).
Bosses we should NOT use CoR on when we do not have 5/5 Demo Shout are: Teron Gorefiend

Resources:
Wowhead: Use it to find Mankrik's wife.
A brief primer on Attack Power - TankSpot
http://elitistjerks.com/f33/t7058-de...g_shout_et_al/
Demoralizing Shout - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

All above information can be found through these and other various resources.

sarf · 04/18/08, 4:27 AM

Hmm... I'm not too comfortable with the assumption of raid bosses have 340 AP, as someone else seems to be in that tankspot thread.

From my calculations, it seems that Uvuros has 304 AP - this would seem to indicate that the AP range varies a lot between different creatures (if the 411 AP Kara imps are not including the Warlocks +spellpower AND assuming that they can all be removed).

I do not see how we from the current data - since the WoW forums thread seems to be gone - can say that 340 AP is where it is at.

I arrived at 304 AP by checking the amount of damage coming from AP - 391, then calculating the expected damage when decreasing AP by a certain number - at 304 AP you end up with -210 AP yielding 2472.901 and -248 AP you get 2424.026, which agrees with the data provided that the values are rounded to closest integer.

Chirality · 04/18/08, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by sarf

Hmm... I'm not too comfortable with the assumption of raid bosses have 340 AP, as someone else seems to be in that tankspot thread.

From my calculations, it seems that Uvuros has 304 AP - this would seem to indicate that the AP range varies a lot between different creatures (if the 411 AP Kara imps are not including the Warlocks +spellpower AND assuming that they can all be removed).

I do not see how we from the current data - since the WoW forums thread seems to be gone - can say that 340 AP is where it is at.

I arrived at 304 AP by checking the amount of damage coming from AP - 391, then calculating the expected damage when decreasing AP by a certain number - at 304 AP you end up with -210 AP yielding 2472.901 and -248 AP you get 2424.026, which agrees with the data provided that the values are rounded to closest integer.

I never got 340 either, based on the Lurker Below.

---
If you assume something like:

Damage = base_damage + attack_power*multiplier*weapon_speed / 14.0

Using the information on the Lurker Below from Beat Lore (shown below with level of Shadow Embrace) from earlier in this thread:

Damage Range		ShadowEmbrace	-Attack Power  
11984-16895		0/5			0	
10068-14768		5/5			-210 (bat pet screech)
9519-14218		5/5			-300 (non-talented demo shout)
9397-14096		5/5			-510 (demo + screech) 
And by Beast Lore on the Lurker below with 1/5 Shadow Embrace
11948-16895		0/5			0
9920-14817		1/5			-300 (non-talented demo)
9792-14696		1/5			-420 (talented demo)

Assuming a damage equation of the form (Damage = ShadowEmbraceFactor*(Base + AP*multiplier*2.0/14)) for a boss that attacks with a delay of 2.0, the result is that:

Damage_from_AP = 45.0 *AP /7.0

For AP reduction ranging from 0-300. The 420+ AP reductions do not futher decrease the bosses's damage. The indication is that the boss has 320 +/-3% attack power.

Thus: Only one point in improved Demo Shout is useful without CoRex.