Best tanking metagem - Tenacious v. Powerful

Nackleburr · 03/26/07, 4:58 PM

I'm having difficulty deciding between the Powerful Earthstorm Diamond, (http://www.thottbot.com/i25896), and the Tenacious Earthstorm Diamond, (http://www.thottbot.com/i25898), for my T4 helm.

I value the 18 stamina over the 12 defense rating, so I'm trying to decide whether the chance on hit heal tips the value in favor of the Tenacious gem.

Does anyone have specifics on the proc rate & amount healed? Which metagem do you prefer as a main tank?

♦ Praetorian · 03/26/07, 5:02 PM

Also consider that actually meeting the gem requirements for Tenacious means using up to 10 hybrid blue/X gems and/or 5 red/yellow gems. That's a lot of lost stamina.

Go with Solid Stars of Elune from head to toe, and Powerful fits right in.

Edit: This is the Tenacious proc, by the way, according to thott: http://www.thottbot.com/s32845

Garm · 03/26/07, 5:09 PM

There is plenty of defense gear out there to get you to 490 without the metagem. While defense may still provide benefit past that point, my feeling is that stamina is superior.

Morpheis · 03/27/07, 2:05 AM

I went with powerful myself, stamina is great.

On an aside I did the math the other day and looked at my gain vs loss if I were to take all my sockets and simply put a Solid Star of Elune (+12stamina) in every socket on my gear.

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#c...nis&n=Morpheis

I would gain 66stamina (this is simply the stamina I would gain over my current setup) at the cost of 27 defense rating (11 defense points), 31 dodge rating (1.6% dodge), 4 block rating (.51% block), and 6 parry rating (.20% parry). The 11 defense points do also translate into avoidance so I would have to do a little more research but I found it interesting.

• Vulajin · 03/27/07, 2:30 AM

Defense rating translates to avoidance at a 14.78:1 ratio. So your 27 defense rating is approximately 1.83% total avoidance (the real value will be slightly different because it rounds when converting to defense value, then gives avoidance amounts based on the rounded value).

660 health versus 4.17% total avoidance?

RK · 03/27/07, 4:20 AM

Significantly more than 660 health after vitality and kings, and block doesn't count as avoidance as such so more like 770HP vs 3.6% avoidance and some mitigation from block.

I'd generally say the HP, although it does nothing to reduce the total damage taken by the tank. If you're running out of healer mana, the answer is generally less about "more avoidance on tanks to save mana" and more "whip your DPS harder to finish the fight quicker".

suicuique · 03/27/07, 7:36 AM

Originally Posted by RK

Significantly more than 660 health after vitality and kings, and block doesn't count as avoidance as such so more like 770HP vs 3.6% avoidance and some mitigation from block.

Old question, I know. And a matter of preferance.
But if I'm not 1-roundable I'd easily take the avoidance.
And keep in mind that blocking chance has a real value attached to it on fast hitting/thrashing mobs.

Past the point when I'm buffable to 18+ K HP (which is not hard to achieve at all) I'd prefer the avoidance. I'm sitting at 56% total avoidance (miss+parry+dodge) at something like 18.5-19K HP (depends on such factors like improved commanding shout, fortification flask or old titan), so another 3.8% of avoidance would have real value.

We'd approaching a hit chance for the mob of ca 40%. Two consecutive hits would have a chance of 16%.
Three consecutive hits a chance of 6%.
And a string of 4 hits less than a 3% chance.

Compare this to a total avoidance chance of roughly 45% (if you neglect gear with avoidance) and you get:
2 consecutive hits: 30.25%
3 consecutive hits: 17%
4 hit string: 9%

But this is almost a question of tanking belief, when to switch priorities from STA to avoidance (if at all).

ADDENDUM: And keep in mind that going "all out" no matter what is kinda naive. +12 Def as a bracer enchant should be a no brainer in comparison to +12 STA even for the STA junkies. Whereas parry gems have no value in comparison to stars of elune even for the avoidance freaks.

Abbi · 03/27/07, 9:16 AM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Also consider that actually meeting the gem requirements for Tenacious means using up to 10 hybrid blue/X gems and/or 5 red/yellow gems. That's a lot of lost stamina.

Go with Solid Stars of Elune from head to toe, and Powerful fits right in.

Edit: This is the Tenacious proc, by the way, according to thott: http://www.thottbot.com/s32845

Yeah, that's the Tenacious proc. It's not very useful. On my last Karazhan run, I had 3260 hits and got a big fat 150 procs out of it. 7,550 health. I'd have to say the proc's kind of a non-factor in the gem decision.

Fellwraith · 03/27/07, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Vulajin

Defense rating translates to avoidance at a 14.78:1 ratio. So your 27 defense rating is approximately 1.83% total avoidance (the real value will be slightly different because it rounds when converting to defense value, then gives avoidance amounts based on the rounded value).

660 health versus 4.17% total avoidance?

I'm pretty sure defense rating translates to 0.05% avoidance (dodge, parry, miss) per point of rating. It's 0.12% avoidance per point of defense skill, 2.4 defense rating per skill (0.12/2.4). I think 27 defense rating is only 1.35% avoidance + whatever nominal benefit you get from block.

For what it's worth, a lot of the Kara epic socket bonuses are pretty lackluster compared to ~7 stamina (Kings + talents). It's really a matter of what you get for the opportunity cost. Some are good, some are crap. 0.1% parry? 0.5% to block for 350-400 damage? I'll take the "I don't need to flask for this" option over those kinds of bonuses.

When I finally manage to bamboozle my way into getting a t4 helm, I plan on using the powerful earthstorm in my mailbox. Flexibility + a decent socket bonus seems like a win to me.

• moz · 03/27/07, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Morpheis

I went with powerful myself, stamina is great.

On an aside I did the math the other day and looked at my gain vs loss if I were to take all my sockets and simply put a Solid Star of Elune (+12stamina) in every socket on my gear.

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#c...nis&n=Morpheis

I would gain 66stamina (this is simply the stamina I would gain over my current setup) at the cost of 27 defense rating (11 defense points), 31 dodge rating (1.6% dodge), 4 block rating (.51% block), and 6 parry rating (.20% parry). The 11 defense points do also translate into avoidance so I would have to do a little more research but I found it interesting.

With the way current encounters are, it's still the best option (assuming you are capped on defense) -- not too much to think about.

Hozz · 03/27/07, 12:04 PM

They need to boost socket bonuses, most are shit. Also, IMO, dodge and especially parry are overvalued by the Blizzard item budget, that doesnt help.

Tenacious should be much better than Powerful based on activation requirements alone. But its not. They need to make the heal bigger or go off a lot more or change the activation requirement at the absolute least.