Max DPS for prot warrior? - Page 3

Cathela · 04/16/07, 5:05 PM

Originally Posted by Safid

Can someone confirm for me that Focused Rage affects Devastate? And can someone tell me if 8 rage per second is sustainable from dual wield autoattack, or if that's too much? If it's easy (like I think it should be) to maintain that level of rage gain, I wonder if it would be useful to toss in some heroic strikes / cleaves / whirlwinds or if nothing really beats simple Devastate spam for pure damage per GCD.

Focused Rage does affect Devastate. When soloing it's very easy to get the rage to spam it nonstop; in fact if you walk up to a mob, sunder it up and start spamming Devastate, you'll have to weave in some heroic strikes to bleed off extra rage. Of course, that's with the mob hitting you, but I'd still think with raid-quality gear and raid buffs you'd have more rage than you need.

I was getting ~200 damage per Devastate from my crappy offhand wearing my crappy dps gear on the PTR. My estimate of 200dps from the offhand portion of Devastate was based on the thinking that someone with good gear could boost it to 300 damage per swing (1.5 second GCD, so 300 damage per Devastate would be 200dps.) But LodeRunner's comment about getting only 1/4 damage from the offhand in a Devastate makes me realize that you'd have to add 400 base damage per swing to the offhand to go from 200 damage to 300 damage, so that's probably unrealistic.

My guess is that the offhand component of Devastate will add something like 150-175dps for a well-geared warrior.

Punscho · 04/16/07, 5:16 PM

It IS late. I just remembered I havn't actually added the new dual devastate into my sheet, as I made it for the Aran fight just for fun.

So this is the updated sheet.

I modelled the new devastate as adding 50% offhand damage + 175 aswell. This is about 50% more devastate damage than in live.

2000 ap
30% crit
10% hit
5p 1h mastery
0.1 sec gcd lag

20% armor reduction, attacking from behind.
The current glancing system with 40% rate, 70% dmg.

Aprox 760 dps.

MH: 200dps
OH: 95dps
Devastate MH: 315dps
Devastate OH: 160dps

Nezralix · 04/16/07, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Safid

I agree that it is odd that the ultimate prot talent is a mediocre tanking increase, but a fantastic DPS increase, but ... it allows prot warriors to do decent damage on fights when they're not needed to tank, and gives multiple tanks something else to do. Fair's fair after all. Bear druids can catform and do respectable DPS. Now all we need is for prot pallies to be able to do something else!

However, it requires a very long wind-up time that makes it rather impractical for solo situations and PvP.

Bluefish · 04/16/07, 7:43 PM

If Devastate is the same code as Mutilate and our Dual Wield Specs are the same code too, then the bonus damage should be multiplied by your Dual Wield Spec. The bonus damage of Mutilate being affected by DWS is part of why 41/20 Mutilate loses so little Mutilate damage to 41/*/5+*

Asur · 04/17/07, 7:46 AM

Here's me having some fun on the test server:

(1354 DPS with Devastate/Heroic spam on one of the unkillable servants in Blasted Lands)

I realise the servants aren't the best test for actual raid DPS, but it was the only mob I could think of where I could stack 5 sunders and DPS for a while without getting hurt or relying on others to tank for me. I'm dualwielding my Planar Edge and Vindicator's Brand, and using random gear from Tier5 rogue, warrior and hunter boxes in addition to my own gear from live. It's sadly lacking in proper gems and enchants, but it still beat my live server stats by a bit.

It seems a bit over the top strong to me, but I would like to test it in a raid environment for aggro issues and rage generation before deciding on that.

Graul · 04/17/07, 9:07 AM

Originally Posted by Punscho

Even with ~650 block value I find I do much better dps in my dual wield gear than in my block value gear when specced 41+ prot. I have to admit 2500 shield slam crits on Aran is fun but in no way does it outperform you dual wielding spamming devastate.

Hit isn't that important since you don't have offhand mastery or flurry, just get about 10% or something hit and then stack ap/crit. You'll spam 12 rage devastates and 12/9 rage hs like a madman. On Aran, you should get enough rage for almost anything since you're getting nuked quite alot by magic damage and if you just pop berserker rage in a good fashion you'll have a full rage bar instantly.

Not sure what dual wield spec has to do with needing +hit, both hands have the same miss rate anyway. One handed weapon specialization is nearly the same boost to the off hand.

Punscho · 04/17/07, 9:36 AM

Well, after you get enough hit to don't miss specials the value of +hit really goes down since it only applies to white damage. The reason offhand spec is a good boost in a fury spec is because flurry boosts whitedmg with 30% so it has a larger impact. Without flurry the gains from +hit is alot lower. 1h mastery improves heroic strike and devastates aswell so it's much better than the offhand spec.

Just dual wield white damage and devastate and you're looking at about 40% white dmg and 60% devastate. Throw in alot of heroics and the gains from +hit is lowered even more.

Safid · 04/17/07, 9:49 AM

Asur, is that with or without dual wield spec from fury?

Asur · 04/17/07, 9:58 AM

Originally Posted by Safid

Asur, is that with or without dual wield spec from fury?

It's with 0/20/41, so 5/5 Cruelty, 5/5 Unbridled wrath, 5/5 Commanding Presence and 5/5 Dual Wield Specialization.

Safid · 04/17/07, 10:04 AM

I guess the question is, using that gear, how does 1346 DPS on those mobs compare to a dual wield fury build? Or whatever the de facto warrior PVE DPS build de jour is. I haven't been keeping up.

Deris · 04/17/07, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Safid

I guess the question is, using that gear, how does 1346 DPS on those mobs compare to a dual wield fury build? Or whatever the de facto warrior PVE DPS build de jour is. I haven't been keeping up.

One thing to keep in mind before anyone says "zomg nerfz" is that Devastate and Heroic Strike both have built in aggro components - thus spamming HS/Devastate wearing DPS gear and dual wielding won't be overpowered by any means since they are statically limited by the threat cap. (that of the MT)

This does excite me in the fact that Blizzard is possibly listening to player concerns about specific classes and their raid stacking viability - ideally every tank would be like Feral Druids where they can perform 1 role extremely well (tanking) and another decent enough to warrant bringing them on the raid for tanking additional mobs (dps). Now if we could only get Prot Pallies on this train.

Safid · 04/17/07, 10:24 AM

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusions, but I do want to point out that on the PTR the tooltip for Devastate no longer mentions additional threat.

It could still be there, of course, but it is also possible that the devs have deliberately removed it. I like the direction Blizz is going in with this, but I think everyone wants to avoid a 2.0 feral druid situation. Ideally I'd want a prot warrior to tank extremely well and be able to do respectable damage, not to tank extremely well AND dps extremely well with the same build.

Deris · 04/17/07, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Safid

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusions, but I do want to point out that on the PTR the tooltip for Devastate no longer mentions additional threat.

Wow, if they did remove the threat, maybe they are trying to really hybridize Warriors in that all 3 trees can DPS well.

Branar · 04/17/07, 10:40 AM

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusions, but I do want to point out that on the PTR the tooltip for Devastate no longer mentions additional threat.

IIRC, Devastate never had any additional threat per application of Sunder to begin with, which is what the tooltip mentioned - it just had 100 additional base threat.

So I'm not sure that the tooltip being changed in this way reflects that they took away that 100 additional base threat...

Punscho · 04/17/07, 10:59 AM

If they remove the 100 bonus threat the skill goes from slightly better than sunder armor to much worse from tanking perspective. And that would be odd I think.