I don't see what's wrong with this, does it have any uses beyond allowing a Prot Warrior to farm as well as a DPS class? The threat generation during that test must have been incredible, and totally unsuitable for raid DPS.
P.S Huh, it's Asurmen.
Hi Jaz
I might get a chance to test out the threat on PTR, assuming we have enough that want to play around a bit in black temple.
Originally Posted by Emeraude
All the testing going on with that skill is being done with PTR gear, so of course it looks insane heh.
When has Blizzard ever balanced the class around normalcy though?
Here's the numbers I got the day before I saw Tier5 available:
Originally Posted by Anias
Depends on your buffs and gear selection dramaticly. In particular, t5 is sorta meh for fury and stronger for devastate spam (more damage from yellows means the lost hit on some slots isn't as big a deal).
I've been outspoken elsewhere that the various specs should all do equal damage, with different utility, mainly because in wow one of the most important personal progression items for any character at the moment is motes per hour, so I won't go back over it.
Let me instead say that I find blizzard's reasoning for discouraging players from speccing prot at best mind-numbingly awful.
I mean seriously, why make the class/specs that are most irreplacable the ones that the majority of the game thinks "gee that sucks, no thanks" about? As an example, say a guild loses all it's geared prot warriors that is a much larger blow than losing all your geared rogues, yet I can think of several incentives to "reroll rogue" and very few to "reroll prot". Silly design, yay for making it harder to maintain guilds (and by extension subscriptions).
I know, it's that crazy "make it easy to form groups" side of me popping out, the one that thinks people keep playing long after the game's content is dry if they're having a fun time with minimal tedium with their friends. Feel free to ignore it.
I suppose the point I'm making is this - for the vast vast vast majority of the playerbase - the devastate change was fine on all levels. It was even, likely, good for the game in that it would make there be more random prot specced warriors running around (generally improving the 5 man experience, particularly horde side in face of the warrior/druid-less belf invasion) and yet blizzard worried more about that 5% that would have the gearset they provided (and not the alternative pieces that might have been better suited to fury).
Silly decision.
For proper gear I fear we're doomed to wearing the few crit/hit/ap leather pieces we can find. Much of our 'own' plate seems geared mostly for crit and strength, like they were planning on warriors DPSing with twohanders or indeed planning ahead for devastate spam.
I was looking forward to having a spec I could use for both DPS and tanking, would be easier to run heroics that way. Would only have to respec once a week for arenas then.
Originally Posted by Punscho
It would be nice is Asur gave us a test with a single attacking devastate and the same gear. I don't know if the changes went live tonight or if they will later. Even with a single attacking devastate you can deal quite the amount of DPS.
I know we had a protection warrior do around 700 dps with blue weapons and blue gear with crit gems, on Aran on live. I'll go see if they changed it already on test when the patch decides to finish.
I also has a dualwield version of devastate on test atm, but Im sure its not the same devastate from yesterday. From what i can tell from playing around a bit on the blasted land mobs. The offhand hit doesnt get the sunder bonus anymore, which in my case makes it crit for around 250 (Upto 600-700 crits last night) (Using vindicators brand as offhand, 1748ap). Can anyone confirm its not just me who is bugged ?
Just got on test to check things out. It does appear right now that the OH attacks are not getting the Sunder Armor bonus—which hopefully means they’re trying alternative fixes for the over-the-top DPS before removing it completely.
Oh, and swords work in the main hand now, which is nice.
I really hope they keep working on Devestate and figure out a way that balances it enough to add it in to the actual game. As far as prot specs go, back when I had my 12/5/44 build, I was quite happy with my DPS using the equipment I'd managed to pick up through heroics and Karazhan. Since having to go 8/10/43 and dropping a lot of my damage and rage efficient talents in favour of the most damage mitigation possible (guild MT), I can't bring myself to do any real farming whatsoever. I use what little free time I get to just mindlessly pick herbs in my full tanking gear, tabbing in to hit shield slam every six seconds. With the consumable change coming up to destroy my current absurdly unfair effort:time:gold ratio, I need them to get this right.
The no sunder bonus damage on the offhand is a reasonable fix. Dual striking Devastate will still up prot DPS considerably, but without that extra bonus damage, it shouldn't rival fury even under the best of conditions.
Further it stops the incentive for a prot warrior to spec 20 into fury for the dual wield bonus. You could, but in my mind the returns are minimal.
Now we just need Asur to be a guinea pig again with the retuned Devastate...
Removing the sunder bonus from the OH cuts out 175 damage per Devastate, or 117 dps for continuous spam. It also reduces the damage output in a way that's friendly to solo-farming, since you get full OH damage right from the start.
Seems like a good move to me.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
Why not have an ability that lets you do white dmg with your shield? Put it at like 40% of shield block value for dmg or something, and at 2.0 speed maybe. For a miss penalty maybe have 15% base instead of 24%.
This would have a minimal impact on tanking, since your rage is mostly from taking dmg, but would have a great impact on soloing and OT/dpsing, since the main problem with 1h/shield is rage generation.
It seems counterintuitive to me that soloing and dpsing as prot works better when you're dual wielding vs 1h/shielding. This would solve that issue, and allow you to use all your shield skills at the same time.
I'd rather see something like this than seeing devastate turn into the uber alles prot ability.
You could simplify it still further than that, you could add an anger management kind of component to one of the deep protection talents (maybe even devastate) where you would generate x amount of rage per second when in combat with your shield equipped. DPS would still be lower than other options, but at least if you chose to go for the greater mitigation when farming you wouldn't be quite so rage limited and would be able to shield slam and devastate while solo'ing.
1450~ unbuffed ap.
124 hit
28.86% crit in berserker
[Fool's Bane] mainhand 9
[Fang of Vashj] offhand
(10k health, cyns has no pve pve gear, only pvp gear! Woot 11k hp)
First one is devastate, I got 1094.7 dps (exactly as expected when comparing with Asur's post, lacking 200~ ap and 2~% hit
Second one is fury, where I got 1024.6 dps (Mind you I missed so many blood thurst timers, lost a few stacks of rampage, was late on bloodrage/berserker rage a few times, and let SUNDER fall of.)
That is right, I sundered the mob myself. Because you can not measure devestate vs fury if both are not sundered!
If you are sundering, Asur, I have NO idea how you're getting such low numbers. I am sure after a day of practice, I could push my dps on both devestate and fury another 100 higher.
P.S.
Dps with devestate is easy, mage style. One presses basically two buttons.
Odd. I'm assuming you used deathwish? Also is that a Dragonspine Trophy? Starting to wonder how long sunders were up for my first test, since I didn't actually run chronometer to keep an eye on it.
Yep, I used deathwish, but like I said my rotations were nowhere perfect, I missed so many cooldowns on bt, ww, berserker rage so on so forth, let bshout run out, and do not even ask about rampage! And my sample size was twice as large, so less dw nudging the numbers\.
A guildie and I tested this some more later on, he was able to push 1200~ dps (he has 200 ap and 10 hit on the war I use, plus obviously general's weapons). He had my sunder (moot point, 15 rage / 30 seconds).
He too was suffering from PTR blues, missing bshouts, rampages, etc due to horrible ui.
P.S. : What I notice now is that your white damage % is unnaturally high (52% vs 49 vs 46 of his). This might be due to gear but it looks like the kind of change sunder would make. (more rage from white damage to specials)
I am certain on those mobs with good enough timing I could push my fury dps to 1150~ and my guldie to 1350 and higher.
If I am on and you want to do some more tests I'll gladly be a sunder bitch.
Ok, I just did some quick fury vs prot dps tests on the PTR. Using the exact gear/spec you see on my armory for fury, I was about to sustain ~1250 dps infinitly(gogo bloodthirst heal). This is keeping up sunder/rampage/bs and using trinket/DW every cooldown. As full prot, 10/5/46, with the same gear except a Vindicator's Brand with crusader in my offhand, I was able to sustain ~1100 dps. The one huge thing I noticed about prot was procs have ABSURD uptime. I had a crusader last longer than a battle shout once in my ~14 minute fight. And MH crusader was often up for 30+ seconds at a time, and when it dropped would pop back up quickly.
I am tempted to try 17/3/41 and see how much impale/deep wounds does. Prolly not enough to offset the 2% crit and tanking talents you lose though.
Also, if there was any way to have flurry/devastate, that would just be amazing. So many instant attacks would keep it up constantly.
EDIT: Haha, and this is the part where I forgot I specced MS cause I was bored. Gear Black Planar Edge/Malchazeen, roughly 1820ap, 26% crit and 170 hit rating in zerker. Trinkets are bloodlust brooch/hourglass.
Last edited by Bliss : 04/19/07 at 9:38 PM.
Reason: Was a nub
Well, dang. It’s rather sad to see that they couldn’t find a way to make it reasonably balanced. I can only hope that they’ll keep trying to find something. Too bad the earliest we’d see it won’t be for another several months when the next patch hits the ground.
04/18/07, 6:42 AM
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