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Old 03/28/07, 5:36 PM   #1
Insect
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Hyjal
[Warrior] +12 stam in tanking gear.

It seems theres a gem feud going on lately.

Stacking +12 sta .VS Avoidance/hit/str/ect.

Discuss.

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Old 03/28/07, 5:41 PM   #2
♦ Praetorian
Mike Tyson
 
Praetorian's Avatar
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
What's there to discuss?

Solid Stars of Elune are the best gem, period, unless you need more +def to get to 490, in which case you should look for other gear that will get you to 490 and allow you to use more Solid Stars of Elune.

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Old 03/28/07, 5:42 PM   #3
Muggins
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
Why didn't you put this little gem(pun intended) in here:

[Warrior] MT itemization theory

Discuss.

Edit: to the post just below me, perhaps a better term for Armour/Stamina would be 'Soak' to match to the other two catagories.

Last edited by Muggins : 03/28/07 at 5:48 PM.

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Old 03/28/07, 5:46 PM   #4
Suesse
Don Flamenco
 
Suesse's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Llane
Someone is actually putting strength in their tanking gear?

Let's talk about three categories a warrior could maximize:
Armor/Stamina (blue stamina gem) vs Avoidance (yellow defense, red dodge) vs Threat (yellow hit)

I've omitted parry in avoidance and agility in armor/stamina because they aren't so great.

Right now I'm going pure stamina, but that's just me.

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Old 03/28/07, 5:55 PM   #5
Insect
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
Why didn't you put this little gem(pun intended) in here:

[Warrior] MT itemization theory

Discuss.

Edit: to the post just below me, perhaps a better term for Armour/Stamina would be 'Soak' to match to the other two catagories.
Oh, my apologies I didn't see it. If someone wants to move it over there you have my blessing.

Last edited by Insect : 03/28/07 at 6:02 PM.

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Old 03/28/07, 6:01 PM   #6
Hozz
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Suramar
I emphasize STA but I make sure to get socket bonuses even if they suck. Its a sickness but I cant help it.

I also love +hit.

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Old 03/28/07, 6:17 PM   #7
Russta
King Hippo
 
Human Paladin
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
I wonder if Blizzard will do anything with regards to making set bonuses better. Right now, if you have your defense capped, there's not a standard gem or set bonus in the game that touches the benefits of simply throwing a Solid Star of Elune in every slot.

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Old 03/28/07, 7:28 PM   #8
Morsexy
Banned
 
Human Warrior
 
Ysera
I dont think its as simple as just throwing 12 stam in every slot. If you have 6 slots available, and you slot them with 3 x Enduring Talasite and 3 x Solid Star of Elune vs 6 Stamina Gems, you're **that** much of a better tank?

Tank b has 180 more hitpoints, or 18 more stamina. x kings x prot spec = 20.79 ( assuming 21 with your other native stamina rounding issues ).

Tank A has 5 more Defense. .2% more dodge, parry, block and -.2% chance to be hit.

Full raid buffs B has 18,500 life, and tank A has 18,700. Values that will generally only be increasing while the same 6 slots will remain open for gems.

Having things enter the argument like "stack armor" is probably the dumbest aspect of the "how to build a warrior tank" to bring up since on the whole, we have a very very very fixed amount of gear to choose from so the variance from tank to tank is small enough its not even worth bringing up ever again.

I find it tough to justify just always stacking stamina, the one attribute that is either constantly buffed ( raid buffs ) or replenished ( healing ). Not to mention that it is my personal belief that blizzard has screwed around the with the crit cap stuff with bosses.

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Old 03/28/07, 8:05 PM   #9
Roana
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Suesse View Post
Someone is actually putting strength in their tanking gear?
It depends on what you're tanking, I'd say. My gear for regular 5-mans does have a fair amount of strength/attack power on it, because that makes a measurable difference for your threat generation in an environment where rage is limited and DPS engages quickly.

I still put +stamina gems in sockets, though, and haven't even been tempted to go for different types of gems.

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Old 03/28/07, 9:17 PM   #10
Umph
Soda Popinski
 
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Umph
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
This sounds very much like the Druid argument of Armour vs Avoidance(/Stamina). I think ultimately it's down to personal preference once you're crit immune, however when I see a tank (Druid, Warrior, or otherwise) that is stacking stamina all I see is a mana sponge. I think it's important to consider raising your avoidance stats at the same time because a dodge/parry/miss is wonderful in my opinion.

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Old 03/28/07, 9:42 PM   #11
zepi
Miekkamies
 
zepi's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by Morsexy View Post
Tank b has 180 more hitpoints, or 18 more stamina. x kings x prot spec = 20.79 ( assuming 21 with your other native stamina rounding issues ).

Tank A has 5 more Defense. .2% more dodge, parry, block and -.2% chance to be hit.
But the thing is that WHEN the boss hits 2x for 6500 insider half a second timeframe. (Magtheridon's normal attack + cleave for instance) and you are not completely topped, that 180hp is actually one hell of a lot of HP. And it's about WHEN it happens. Unless your dodge+parry is ~99 and fractions percents it will happen twice in a row often enough to cause wipes if not once a day, atleast sometimes. The thing with dodge is that even if you have 5% more change to dodge, you only gain 5% more change to survive any given hit that would otherwise kill you, but because bosses tend to hit for very quantized amounts of damage, a small change in HP can push you from "I can't take 2 hits in a row and live" tank to "I can take 2 hits in a row and live" tank. Latter is lightyears ahead of the former in almost every current encounter in wow. (Gruul with enough stacks + reverbs, new Magtheridon, Maulgar...)

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Old 03/29/07, 1:29 AM   #12
Emeraude
Bald Bull
 
Emeraude's Avatar
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Sargeras
Only 3 gems I've put into my tanking gear, +12 stamina, +6 Stamina/+4 def, +8 dodge.

Although I'm beginning to rethink this and just considering stamina stacking is the way to go. =/ Sad day for a former avoidance Warrior, I miss my 30%+ dodge rate. QQ

What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

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Old 03/29/07, 2:17 AM   #13
Russta
King Hippo
 
Human Paladin
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Emeraude View Post
Only 3 gems I've put into my tanking gear, +12 stamina, +6 Stamina/+4 def, +8 dodge.

Although I'm beginning to rethink this and just considering stamina stacking is the way to go. =/ Sad day for a former avoidance Warrior, I miss my 30%+ dodge rate. QQ
I tanked Magtheridon with 21k HP and 23% dodge. Maiden finally put out her neck tonight so I'm at 24% now. I'm not sure what the average Warrior has these days but the healers on me commented on how many times I went for long stretches of no damage during the fight.

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Old 03/29/07, 3:16 AM   #14
Pane
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by ruro View Post
This sounds very much like the Druid argument of Armour vs Avoidance(/Stamina). I think ultimately it's down to personal preference once you're crit immune, however when I see a tank (Druid, Warrior, or otherwise) that is stacking stamina all I see is a mana sponge. I think it's important to consider raising your avoidance stats at the same time because a dodge/parry/miss is wonderful in my opinion.
I think the beauty of stamina is the 'one drug cures all' effect, where as avoidance is meaningless versus magic attacks, and there's quite a few bosses that aren't limited to melee. Also, a huge HP pool with lower avoidance might work out heavier on healer mana, but has a larger predictability and margin for error then one stacked the other way.

As healer I always prefered the big green bar-types.

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Old 03/29/07, 3:26 AM   #15
Vazu
Don Flamenco
 
Vazu's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
What's there to discuss?

Solid Stars of Elune are the best gem, period, unless you need more +def to get to 490, in which case you should look for other gear that will get you to 490 and allow you to use more Solid Stars of Elune.
Pretty much it. Stamina is lord of all things for most stuff. The socket bonuses for tank gear don't justify a loss in stamina from NOT using 12 stam gems.

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