Moonkin DPS Calculator? - Page 5

Tufriast · 03/31/07, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by thejdawg

Sorry, I quoted you, but didn't mean it only to you. My statement was to any Moonkin who thought that it wasn't worth the talent points/not worth the GCD.

Yeah I gotta think of it from a bunch of angles. I'm still wishy-washy on this talent, it isn't bad, but it isn't great. I'd be so much more tempted to take it if it were further up the tree, cost less points, etc. etc. Right now I got to pick between that and Celestial Focus. Focus is really, really, really helpful when I got someone in my face. It's a coin toss.../boggle. Focus helps with farming..etc. Stun is nice, but procs rarely I feel.

I wouldn't boot someone out of a raid for not taking it though, it helps, but I don't think to the magnitude of worth kicking someone.

Playered · 03/31/07, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tufriast

Yeah I gotta think of it from a bunch of angles. I'm still wishy-washy on this talent, it isn't bad, but it isn't great. I'd be so much more tempted to take it if it were further up the tree, cost less points, etc. etc. Right now I got to pick between that and Celestial Focus. Focus is really, really, really helpful when I got someone in my face. It's a coin toss.../boggle. Focus helps with farming..etc. Stun is nice, but procs rarely I feel.

I wouldn't boot someone out of a raid for not taking it though, it helps, but I don't think to the magnitude of worth kicking someone.

Indeed, moving it to the 3rd tier (please destroy brambles) would actually make it viable as you need 3 filler points anyway and this way they become viable in a raiding spec regardless of its bloated cost.

Dranak · 03/31/07, 5:22 PM

Originally Posted by Tufriast

True. Might do it.

Ok, now moving on, I can move Dr. Boom about 10% in about 1:35 seconds on my first trial, and 1:40 on my second trial. This is unbuffed just slapping an Innervate. My and my friend Mokumoku (horde) were running some tests.

Bottom line he came to about 110-122.9 mana per 1 second totally. 3200-3670 mana is spent every 30 seconds using nothing but Wrath. My mana pool is 11987 is my actual mana pool with Innervate.

I can go about 1:40 seconds on the Dr. Boom fella, and he moves 10% guaranteed. Dunno if that is good, bad, or ugly but it is the truth. I'm gonna get some damage meters posted next on him, and I'm also gonna try and do the Mac Equivalent of FRAPS or whatnot.

I gotta move into the damage next...my Wrath's against him for 1048ish on average, and 2050-2100 point crits. My crit percent is about 23.76% in Moonkin and my Wrath says it crits 26-27% of the time on him it seems. 132,000~ damage, is what I churned out in 150 seconds. 1108.675 DPS is what my bud Mokumoku calculated. Gonna get a DM...see what happens next.

This is unbuffed, not even motw on.

132k damage in 150 seconds is 880 DPS, not 1100. For 2.5 minutes, after which you're OOM and useless (and if I read your post correctly, you also blew Innervate on yourself, which pokes a large hole in your claims of bringing raid utility).

If you want to be taken seriously, get SW_Stats (or one of the other decent damage meters), and take screenshots of you going out w/o pots or flasks and paying a visit to Dr. Boom, and make sure your SS include both damage done, and fight duration, as well as stating whether or not you wasted innervate on yourself.

Edit: Actually, 1:40 + 1:35 would be 195 seconds. So using the damage number you gave (132K), that'd be only 680 DPS.

Boevis · 04/01/07, 3:31 AM

At this point I think you're just attacking a player that has quite a bit of room for improvement when it comes to theorycrafting and a rather large ego based on server progression and short-fight meters.

We all know Moonkin has some obvious raid utility, more than taking a 3rd Warlock/Mage most of the time (except when obviously required). iFF, IS, and the Aura to a caster group (Moonkin, Shadow Priest, Elem Shaman, Mage, Mage) is certainly enough to justify a good Moonkin in a raid group. However, Moonkin requires Salv, so in many Horde guilds where you only have 2 paladins this means losing Kings (15dmg 9 mp5 2% crit) or Wisdom (49 mp5) And has no real viable CC in raiding.

Cluey · 04/04/07, 2:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dranak

132k damage in 150 seconds is 880 DPS, not 1100. For 2.5 minutes, after which you're OOM and useless (and if I read your post correctly, you also blew Innervate on yourself, which pokes a large hole in your claims of bringing raid utility).

If you want to be taken seriously, get SW_Stats (or one of the other decent damage meters), and take screenshots of you going out w/o pots or flasks and paying a visit to Dr. Boom, and make sure your SS include both damage done, and fight duration, as well as stating whether or not you wasted innervate on yourself.

Edit: Actually, 1:40 + 1:35 would be 195 seconds. So using the damage number you gave (132K), that'd be only 680 DPS.

I am in the process of catching up on stuff after a few days break from the forum and this thread interests me as its the one part of the druid I haven't played with.

How did your testing go?

Zephro · 04/04/07, 7:54 AM

Originally Posted by Shalas

Not only are you the only person to have mentioned KT, but you missed the point entirly. Saying you got a server first kill only indicates that you're better than the rest of your server which might be relevant if this were your realm forums, but this isn't. Killing Gruul pre-nerf is impressive, and puts your guild into the top 10% or so

Hehe, how do I get to your planet? Killing Gruul pre-nerf probably puts you in the top 2% of all guilds.

Anyway, something I haven't seen discussed is Judgement of Wisdom and its interaction with Moonkins. Wrath scales better than Starfire, so there exists a level of +damage where Wrath is both better dps and better dpm. JoW moves this much much closer, because it's a flat 50% chance to proc, meaning it procs twice as often with Wrath spam as with Starfire spam. It helps hugely. With my gear loadout (+698 damage, 20% crit) I'm pretty sure JoW'd Wrath lets me last longer than Starfire spam.

Tufriast · 04/04/07, 8:55 AM

Originally Posted by Cluey

I am in the process of catching up on stuff after a few days break from the forum and this thread interests me as its the one part of the druid I haven't played with.

How did your testing go?

There were two trials, and the dps did crack 1100+.

I'll state it again:

"Ok, now moving on, I can move Dr. Boom about 10% in about 1:35 seconds on my first trial, and 1:40 on my second trial."

Each trial moves him 10%. I have SW Stats, and I proved much more to myself rather than to you that I can hold my own on the meters easily.

Anyway, I run a Mac and I've been looking into some equivalent FRAPS application. I've been busy with work, so I'll get a movie going sometime soon.

Tufriast · 04/04/07, 9:02 AM

Originally Posted by Zephro

Hehe, how do I get to your planet? Killing Gruul pre-nerf probably puts you in the top 2% of all guilds.

Anyway, something I haven't seen discussed is Judgement of Wisdom and its interaction with Moonkins. Wrath scales better than Starfire, so there exists a level of +damage where Wrath is both better dps and better dpm. JoW moves this much much closer, because it's a flat 50% chance to proc, meaning it procs twice as often with Wrath spam as with Starfire spam. It helps hugely. With my gear loadout (+698 damage, 20% crit) I'm pretty sure JoW'd Wrath lets me last longer than Starfire spam.

Yeah Wrath spam is 110% the way to go, and yes including Innervate in the rotation helps. You can avoid popping innervate on yourself totally with two items:

1) Flask of Might Restoration. 70 MP/5.
2) Alchemist's Stone. ~51 MP/5 using Fel Mana Potion.

I love using both on longer boss fights we haven't downed yet. Post-nerf Gruul I don't go OOM on now. Pre-nerf I'd Flask. Post, naw he goes down so fast.

Deathwing · 04/04/07, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tufriast

There were two trials, and the dps did crack 1100+.

I'll state it again:

"Ok, now moving on, I can move Dr. Boom about 10% in about 1:35 seconds on my first trial, and 1:40 on my second trial."

Each trial moves him 10%. I have SW Stats, and I proved much more to myself rather than to you that I can hold my own on the meters easily.

Anyway, I run a Mac and I've been looking into some equivalent FRAPS application. I've been busy with work, so I'll get a movie going sometime soon.

According to WoWHead, Dr. Boom has 650,000 HP.

65000/95s = 684 DPS.
65000/100s = 650 DPS.

Even more so, if those two statements are wrong, and only your last one is true:

132000/150s = 880 DPS.

Not sure why you needed a buddy to do simple math for you. So, which one is it, 650, 880, or the wildly outrageous 1100+? If you really did do 1100 DPS, 10% to Dr. Boom would have only taken 59s.

Do you usually use Innervate on yourself?

• Shalas · 04/04/07, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Zephro

Hehe, how do I get to your planet? Killing Gruul pre-nerf probably puts you in the top 2% of all guilds.

Probably under 1%, if you count the huge number of guilds that have 2-3 bosses down in Karazhan. Regardless of the actual number, the point is that the readership of this board is so disproportionatly skewed towards the top end compared to the WoW populace as a whole that an achievment that's impressive on an absolute scale isn't nessesarily something that makes sense to brag about here.

Boevis · 04/04/07, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Tufriast

There were two trials, and the dps did crack 1100+.

I'll state it again:

"Ok, now moving on, I can move Dr. Boom about 10% in about 1:35 seconds on my first trial, and 1:40 on my second trial."

Each trial moves him 10%. I have SW Stats, and I proved much more to myself rather than to you that I can hold my own on the meters easily.

Anyway, I run a Mac and I've been looking into some equivalent FRAPS application. I've been busy with work, so I'll get a movie going sometime soon.

My god, I hate to do this. But Screenshots or it didn't happen. Looking at your gear over armory, I'm willing to bet that you can't break 900 DPS unbuffed with just wrath.

I'm personally well aware of what a well geared moonkin can do, but every time you post that you have SWStats yet refuse to even post a imageshack, photobucket, or hell an Angelfire link to a screenshot, part of me dies. Is it really that hard? We want to see a screenshot. Amuse us by posting anything showing you above 900 DPS with just wrath and most of us are going to shut up. Continue to post without proof and you'll just get ignored and called a liar.

Kharlis · 04/05/07, 10:39 AM

I started on a dps calculator a few weeks ago, haven't really gotten around to finishing it as i've been a tad busy.

The real problem im having is modelling naturesgrace proc's it really throws off any casting cycle, anyone have any good suggestions of how to go about this? (it's stumped me and is the reason i stopped working on this

)

p.s. in my admittedly limited calculations 850 BASE spell damage , with 400 intellect (total modified SD 1045) and 25% crit rate would give roughly 725 DPS purely spamming Wrath. i picked these values because they seemed realistically attainable.

I have assumed that any relevent talents are taken (mana reduction/extra damage contributions etc) except natures grace..which isn't relevent for wrath spam anyway.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...fL5q2E3Yyz3nDA

workings for reference.
dpm seems low @ 4.7 and it would cost 154.7 mana/s or 9282 mana /min to keep that up from wrath alone.

Also to break the alleged 1100 dps, 1850 BASE spell damage with a 25% crit ratio would be required .. i could see the possiblity of breaking 1100 dps for a breif second with all dots up and something critting, but we're talking about sustained dps.. not burst.

If anythings wrong lemme know and ill update it.

zepi · 04/05/07, 11:05 AM

What kind of talentbuild is behind this spreadsheet? I'm assuming that you are not factoring Wrath of Cenarius atleast.

Kharlis · 04/05/07, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by zepi

What kind of talentbuild is behind this spreadsheet? I'm assuming that you are not factoring Wrath of Cenarius atleast.

It's factored into the Modified Final value (edit.. i answered incorrectly first time)

Can't go to anywhere to show a build whilst at work.. will do so later today

secondary edit.
Summary of assumed talents

Starlight Wrath
5 points: Reduces the cast time of your Wrath and Starfire spells by 0.5 sec.

Vengeance
Requires 15 points in Balance Talents
Requires 2 points in Focused Starlight
5 points: Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Starfire, Moonfire, and Wrath spells by 100%.

Lunar Guidance
Requires 20 points in Balance Talents
3 points: Increases your spell damage and healing by 25% of your total Intellect.

Moonglow
Requires 20 points in Balance Talents
3 points: Reduces the Mana cost of your Moonfire, Starfire, Wrath, Healing Touch, Regrowth and Rejuvenation spells by 9%.

Moonfury
Requires 25 points in Balance Talents
Requires 1 point in Nature's Grace
5 points: Increases the damage done by your Starfire, Moonfire and Wrath spells by 10%.

Wrath of Cenarius
5 points: Your Starfire spell gains an additional 20% and your Wrath gains an additional 10% of your bonus damage effects.

Boevis · 04/05/07, 12:32 PM

It's a lot easier than that to break 1100 DPS sustained when you take crits into account, we're talking sustained, not "if I land 3 crits in a row". 25% Crit and 1.1k spell damage nets you 1100 DPS just casting starfire (and not taking Natures Grace into account) in a raid (CoS up). Obviously, unbuffed it's quite a bit more difficult.

Best cycle is going to have Insect Swarm-3 Starfires and then either Wrath or Starfire depending on lag/NG procs.