I was a bit more curious about the threat and not so much about the stamina, I realize the choices of trinkets I put up are a bit poor, sorry.

I edited my post just now Here is the wws I used for the calculations: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...=7167-7783&a=8

Yeah, I agree, especially after last night when I started to MT again, after a guild merge a couple weeks ago.
Well 2 days ago I used not only Vengeance trinket but also Madness at Gruul (with KD), but last night, first time we saw Void Reaver (killed him on the second pull), I ended up dropping one trinket (Madness) for the Styleen's and if I had Gnomeregan Autoblocker I would have used that one as well, replacing the Vengeance trinket.

So basically I lowered my STA by about 600 HP to get about 4% more block (don't have the exact figures now) for threat generation basically and even then I was hard pressed.

I.e. I did manage to keep Void Reaver on me on the last 25%, but I also used TF, cause I just couldnt squeeze in cycles and waste rage on TC, nor even on demo shout, basically only on commanding shout. (There was only one other warrior in the raid and 2 more feral druids and he was starved for rage, even if he got the boss for a while. I had more rage, having put points recently in unbridled wrath. When the boss was at 1% and enranging I was executing, dw, reckleness, drew rage. Died 2 seconds before it).

I have 4/5 T4 and was sitting at 23% dodge, 18% parry, 24% block with about 14700 HP.
Now I have high on my list gear with block (such as the T4 BP) and maybe the Gnomeregan Autoblocker (if I can find the badges, cause I've already purchesed nether vortexes to upgrade my Bulwark of Kings BP and still missing nethers).

So in short having 2 trinkets with +51 STA seems a waste of money for most fights, at the most I'll use one to tank bosses.

Because again when I was trying to hold Void Reaver on me, all I could do was shield block/revenge and a sequence of shield slam, devastate, devastate while dumping rage via HS (that's what kept it on me, as I had learned a lesson during the trash before the boss). No demo, no TC, just the TF debuff and maybe commanding shout.

As for getting aggro back I tried shield slam, devastate some TC (maybe I should have used sunders also) and hs.

HTH and if you guys have pointers please shoot! Much appreciatted (I.e I am watching many top tanks that have less STA then me but something like 36% block as those guilds have block in high regard for their tanks).

I really don't think there are better trinkets available for tanking (in most situations, on a resist encounter I'd obviously need def trinkets) than the 2 cards with 51 stam. I'm waiting to turn one in and working on the other, I can't think of a situation where I would use my pocketwatch instead. I feel spiky with my pocketwatch right now.

As far as threat gen on VR, it shouldn't be an issue. We use 4 tanks. MT (prot warrior) gets a few seconds head start on the 2 bears. I'm the 4th tank, I guess. Although rage starved and praying for pounds the entire fight, I stay near the top by popping bloodrage the second it's up and trying to save my rage while starved for my higher threat generating abilities. It's impossible to do a proper rotation. I don't actually grab aggro until very late in the fight, and the bears end up with aggro for the majority of it. When I finally get aggro, I'm going balls out, but a lot of the fight is your dps controlling their threat. If it's that big of an issue, Windfury the tanks maybe?

We also tell our dps with 5 minute aggro dumps (soulshatter, etc.) to use it at ~2 minutes and ~7 minutes--unless they just get lucky, crit their asses off, and need to pop it early. One of our shadow priests told us that he switched to a lower dps rotation on our first kill, didn't have to hold back as much, and ended up doing more dps than on a previous attempt that lasted a minute longer.

Honestly, as a tauren warrior I feel that I have the advantage of not worrying too much about stamina. I'm around 15.5k unbuffed at the moment without stacking the two stamina trinkets and really, even when I was closer to 14k, I found that above all else threat seemed a bigger priority as long as I can take the hits and live.

My guild utilizes two protection warriors and a feral druid. We just killed Rage Winterchill last night and I expect that the first couple of bosses in BT will drop without much difficulty. Up to this point, I've never thought to myself, "Man, if only I'd had X more hitpoints then Y." More often than anything, I'm cursing at the RNG for keeping me rage starved through an unlucky string of dodges coupled with mob avoidance of my attacks. What I have sought after is block value, armor, hit and weapon skill. Currently I'm of the mind that I'd rather take hits that I can survive, keep a nice rage supply, and pump out threat to my hearts desire.

Dodges can be lucky. Don't get me wrong. Last week's Void Reaver, I tanked for easily 90% of the pull. Go, go random number generator and luck avoiding the knock-aways! My guild mates and the other tanks assumed that VR had been nerfed into the ground when the attunements were lifted. Shrug. But anyway, my point is that stamina, after a point, is really overvalued. I'm not suggesting that anyone try tanking most bosses in max-threat gear, especially not something like Kael, where those trinkets undoubtedly kick-ass. What I am saying is that there remains an inherent value to trinkets like Styleen's and the Auto-blocker even as we move toward content so far and beyond the tier of the two items listed. If anything, it's kind of sad that there aren't more amazing and clear upgrades available.

Personally, I'll take the block value for threat. I tend to think that my guild's DPS agrees, given the amount of rapeage they dish out.

Exactly Sir!

This is the lesson I've learned last night at Void Reaver and your 37% block rate is in line to what my mentor (the power guild on my original server) has as well and what they've been told me, but for another reason (i.e. surviving in Gruul's layer at the time we talked).

BTW, if you had TF would you have used it also over your Blazefury (or my KD)?

Because, I felt that not only TF helps with threat, but spares me the cycles and the rage for TC...Couldn't afford to do that, nor demo, I think, between hs, shield slams, devastates and shield block/revenge.

I actually do have TF and despite several trial runs at replacing it, I find that I consistently generate more threat with Blazefury... UNLESS I'm rage starved. If I'm hurting for rage and especially if the mob has a high amount of armor, then TF is superior in my opinion. These days, however, most bosses we encounter are hard-hitting enough that rage isn't an issue.

I used TF more actively when the alternative was a Blazeguard, which I felt was much closer of a match-up in general usage.

Also, you shouldn't have to worry about keeping TC or Demo shout up unless you're using TC as part of a rotation. As I mentioned earlier, my guild has two protection warriors and whichever one of us isn't tanking handles debuffs. On something like Void Reaver, we have a DPS warrior handle them since neither of us wants to 'waste' rage.

I don't run much in the way of heroics these days and if I was to, chances are I'd wear some DPS gear.

Yep, I agree that giving your healers a buffer is helpful and certainly stack stamina on some encounters. That said, we'll have to agree to disagree on general purpose tanking since I've rarely found myself die due to having 1000 hitpoints too few. Oh, and shield slam crits for 2300-2400 in raids are fun

I absolutely agree with this.

If you're wearing agro gear for something like your first Gruul kill - where half of the DPS is likely threat limited regardless of your agro by the Hurtful tank, and a 16 Growth kill is not out of the question - you're doing your healers a serious disservice. Same for Magtheridon and any other fight with a hard-hitting boss where you're going to have a lead on threat, and staying alive is more difficult than usual.

Similarly, if you're wearing high-stam gear vs. Void Reaver, a boss with very low spike damage for his place in progression and very touchy agro, you're doing your DPS a serious disservice.

Having some flexibility in gear is a good thing; trinkets, rings, and other pieces like that are often the best choices, since you don't have to socket and enchant a second piece of gear (and at least for trinkets, for some reason there's just a huge number of them that you can get outside of raiding).

I agree whole-heartedly. It'd be nice having a specialized 24-28 slot "Armor Bag." Specialized +threat, +armor, +avoidance, +hit, and +stamina sets are a boon to have.

The defense trinkets are nice on resist fights.
The stamina trinkets are nice when you need that extra stamina.
The hit trinkets are nice when you need extra threat.
And the block value trinkets are nice in heroics/some trash.

Actually, my calculations in the TPS sheet thread points to that hit trinkets such as DFT and that heroic BF trinkets actually gives you more threat that styleen's and the GRAB.

can you, please, post your calculation?

GRAB gives you about 50 TPS:
(in a minute SS ideally will do 6 * 84 + 4 * 370 = 1984 more damage. Which means 37 DPS assuming tank has 10% crit, which is equal to 54 TPS.)

average hit trinket RPV gives 2.22% to hit, which improves TPS on about 2%. So, one need to produce about 2.5k TPS to compete GRAB.