[Rogue] Help with PVE gear (Specifically gems) and build!

Dirrocte · 03/30/07, 12:13 AM

Hey all, ive been reading Elitist Jerks for a week or so now and i need some help!

OK here it is:

First, my build, i currently am 41/20/0, i was previously under the impression that this was the number one damage PVE build untill reading these forums. Ok my guild is currently up to the curator in Kara so ya a lot of the mobs are poison immune. Ok so what build would you guys suggest?

Second, i know how important crit was to the Mutilate build so if you suggest i switch to combat daggers or similar, i should focus more on hit right? also for mutilate i should get +damage to the daggers and combat +15 agility?

FINALLY!, ok im gonna need some help with the gem choices. Lol, there are just so many to choose from i cant decide what to put where. obviously it will depend on what you say i should spec.

Well, thanks, in advance, for your help/time.

Facktotum · 03/30/07, 12:27 AM

curator is not wound poison immune

and on trash mobs you can use backstab since they go down pretty fast

as for enchants wait till you have the dagger from prince for MH and enchant moongoose or you can go for 15 agi since you will get more stats from it

exog · 03/30/07, 2:35 AM

Im fairly confident that curator once wasnt immune to wound poison, but i believe i tried wound/mindnumbing a few weeks ago and saw that he was changed to be immune to all poisons.

Yea if u go combat dagger the value of hit goes up (compared to crit in a mutilate build) because it gives more combat potency proccs. It also supports the "happy balancing" of stats as you already got a truckload of crit from imp bs+daggerspecc.

Your gems should reflect this stat balance while taking gem-bonuses into consideration.

• Wodin · 03/30/07, 2:50 AM

Your gem choices will depend on what you're doing. In pvp you'll aim for either all +sta or +(agi/crit)/+sta gems.

For max damage, you'll use
Red: +8 Agi
Yellow: +4 Agi +4 Hit
Blue: +4agi +6sta or break the set bonus and replace this with a +8agi if the set bonus won't be better than an additional 4 agility.

If you're creating a piece of hybrid gear rather than glass-cannon loot, just use X/Sta gems in slots where you'd ordinarily slot a pure damage piece, or plug a straight stamina gem into a blue socket rather than a hybrid one. You can also use green gems with a small but annoying stat loss if you're broke.

That said, one of the best tools for experimenting with gemming is to switch the piece on in Pf's spreadsheet and play with the different gem combinations and see how they change damage. While that may not be exactly how your spec behaves, it will give you a relative point of comparison.

Zoro · 03/30/07, 5:13 AM

Actaully, I find for SS/Hemo builds red really should be +AP.

What I don't understand is the yellow choice for Rogues/Hunters. Agi/Hit is the clear winner, yet as a JC it's one of my worst selling gems. Makes me dispair that the average player actually has a clue what their stats mean.

koaschten · 03/30/07, 7:19 AM

agi/hit > all at least for classic 19/42/0 combat swords

Quickshot · 03/30/07, 7:25 AM

Originally Posted by Wodin

Yellow: +4 Agi +4 Hit

Wouldn't be a rigid dawnstone (+8 Hit) more beneficial ?

koaschten · 03/30/07, 7:46 AM

no, you loose ap and crit from the agility part, i played around a little with the spreadsheet and found that you loose
unbuffed 4 dps, buffed 11 dps, 1,05% crit and almost 2% dodge

this is assuming the gear used here if you switch yellow sockets to 8hit and red sockets to 14ap instead of 4agi/4hit

Quickshot · 03/30/07, 9:03 AM

I just played a bit with the spreadsheet and yeah you're right but the differences are too small to justify that I replace my +8Hit gems. I dont' have enough gems slots on my gear to have such an impact on my stats.

Hanos · 03/30/07, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Dirrocte

Second, i know how important crit was to the Mutilate build so if you suggest i switch to combat daggers or similar, i should focus more on hit right? also for mutilate i should get +damage to the daggers and combat +15 agility?

Actually it is the exact opposite. For Combat Daggers you get more out of +damage to your Main Hand only, but if you can get Mongoose that is better still. For Mutilate you want the extra crit so +15 Agi is better then +damage and Mongoose is still better then both.

This is due to the way the math works out. With Mutilate there is no multiplying the damage of the dagger. You get the (dagger's damage + 101 + AP/14) * 1.5 if poisoned * 1.2 with opportunity and if you crit.... So a +5 weapon damage enchant is only worth 9 damage per mutilate your MH and or 20.7 on a crit. However, Backstab starts off with a 150% multiplier +255, which really isn't a huge difference until you factor in the 30% increased chance of BS to Crit.

So general rule for enchants now: Mongoose if you can afford it on everything > +15 Agi for Mutilate or for most other weapons > +5 damage for MH Dagger for PvE > Crusader if you have the mats lying around.

• Wodin · 03/30/07, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Zoro

Actaully, I find for SS/Hemo builds red really should be +AP.

What I don't understand is the yellow choice for Rogues/Hunters. Agi/Hit is the clear winner, yet as a JC it's one of my worst selling gems. Makes me dispair that the average player actually has a clue what their stats mean.

It's only good for rogues, which is the real problem. Hunters don't need hit at all as they cap incredibly easily. Druids get absurd scaling out of agility and stamina, so for the most part they go for those.

Gogge · 03/30/07, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by koaschten

no, you loose ap and crit from the agility part, i played around a little with the spreadsheet and found that you loose
unbuffed 4 dps, buffed 11 dps, 1,05% crit and almost 2% dodge

this is assuming the gear used here if you switch yellow sockets to 8hit and red sockets to 14ap instead of 4agi/4hit

I think the results vary quite a bit deepening if you use Crezax's values for weapon skill or not, as it seems you cap +hit with that gear with Crezax's +skill numbers.

Mimesis · 03/30/07, 4:36 PM

What I like to do is this: Take out all sockets from your gear in the spreadsheet (pf's). Open up the AEP gear links and scroll down until you find the sockets. Compare AEP values for each gem. I find that unbuffed 18 agi is top, but as you add buffs on, 4agi 4hit passes that, and when you at least a flask, 8 hit becomes the best gem. So your gem choices are going to vary depending on the average amount of consumables you use.

songster · 04/02/07, 4:11 AM

If we're having an "advise me" thread I could do with some pointers.
Here's my Armory profile
http://armory.wow-europe.com/#charac...ing&n=Schizzle

Happy with talents - I know I'm not fully DPS optimised though. 13/41/7 (combat swords with Imp Sap). The points in Imp. Expose are becaue our best tanks are a druid and a paladin, and I'm doing 5-man much more than 10-man.

Weaponwise I'm after Latro's, just never got lucky. It's dropped once and the PuG healadin rolled and won :-( Trinketwise I'm of course after the Abacus.

Where I'm much less clear is on gear choices for armor, and whether I should be going for agility gems, AP gems, crit gems or hit gems. I know I have some of the better blues, but what else should I aim for in terms of pre-raid gear? Is it just the set pieces, or are there other off-set items that are better? The bracer slot is the main priority.

koaschten · 04/02/07, 4:18 AM

go wastewalker with agi/hit gems, cant do much wrong there... i spanked the spreadsheet for a week now and even when plugging in t4/5 i end up with 2-4 pieces wastewalker....

Latro's is the best choice you can do for offhand atm. even the t3 of the craftable 1hand sword cant match in eps : dps relation.

@gogge in a pve situation currently capping hit is the best you can do, then loadup on ap and crit. though you should never go too unbalanced.