Unusually powerful Judgement of Light? - Page 3

alienangel · 04/04/07, 1:43 AM

Originally Posted by Chicken

I personally still remember the Paladins on Kodos bug with some fondness.

But it's certainly an interesting interaction.

I think the beta bug which made a soulwell spawn whenever a hunter's pet used the Warp ability was even more fun

Homercles · 04/04/07, 4:45 AM

Parsing through the combat log Gurgthock attached for parry info (parse here), I've got to ask: is there any real need for the Hurtful Strike tanks to be in front of Gruul, or does Diospadre just like the extra rage?

Scheme · 04/04/07, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by Homercles

Parsing through the combat log Gurgthock attached for parry info (parse here), I've got to ask: is there any real need for the Hurtful Strike tanks to be in front of Gruul, or does Diospadre just like the extra rage?

Standing so Gruul has to turn around to do his HS puts BS/Muti rogues off their rhythm. Not too big a deal, but it is a wasted energy tick while the rogues wait for him to turn back around, not to mention the extra chance of parries on autoattack/SS swings.

EgaL · 04/04/07, 7:33 AM

What I wonder is if the healing value gets reseted to normal when SoL is reapplied by crusader strike.

Kinda pointless because the bug will most likely be removed with the next patch.

Philcorp · 05/05/07, 12:41 AM

Hello!

We were in Kara tonight and some Rogues started randomly discussing this seal of light problem. Being a problem solving type, I immediately put theories to the test. Was it correlated with warlock spells? It seemed to be, we checked on trash pull over trash pull, and then, it hit me. The boost in seal of light appears to be correlated with Light's grace.

My Experiment:

1) Cast seal of light
2) Cast Holy Light.
3) After casting Holy Light and gaining the buff from light's grace the amount healed increased.

The timing was well correlated on vent with my rogues as I would tell them when my heal would land, and sure enough the healing would spike. The result was repeatable. The only thing that remains a question is as to what value it jumps to. We had numbers ranging from 287 up to 340ish. Some theories indicate that since Light's grace lowers casting time perhaps procs from Scarab of the infinite cycle or faster casting due to bloodlust increase it. We tested with bloodlust and had higher number fairly consistantly, but the results are inconclusive at this time.

I hope this has been helpful!

EDIT: Also reapplying seal of light reduces it back to the base value, and you have to cast another Holy Light. I thought I should mention this.

Osse · 05/05/07, 6:08 AM

Paladin trinket activitation that triggers it?

Zyko · 05/05/07, 2:40 PM

Don't think it would have anything to do with trinkets.

Zandig · 05/05/07, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Philcorp

Hello!

We were in Kara tonight and some Rogues started randomly discussing this seal of light problem. Being a problem solving type, I immediately put theories to the test. Was it correlated with warlock spells? It seemed to be, we checked on trash pull over trash pull, and then, it hit me. The boost in seal of light appears to be correlated with Light's grace.

My Experiment:

1) Cast seal of light
2) Cast Holy Light.
3) After casting Holy Light and gaining the buff from light's grace the amount healed increased.

The timing was well correlated on vent with my rogues as I would tell them when my heal would land, and sure enough the healing would spike. The result was repeatable. The only thing that remains a question is as to what value it jumps to. We had numbers ranging from 287 up to 340ish. Some theories indicate that since Light's grace lowers casting time perhaps procs from Scarab of the infinite cycle or faster casting due to bloodlust increase it. We tested with bloodlust and had higher number fairly consistantly, but the results are inconclusive at this time.

I hope this has been helpful!

EDIT: Also reapplying seal of light reduces it back to the base value, and you have to cast another Holy Light. I thought I should mention this.

I was one of the rogues in this run, and can confirm that the healing spikes were predictable and controllable. It also seemed that bloodlust predictably increased the healing as well, so it COULD be related to spell haste in some way. The only thing that seems certain is that light's grace is what procs the initial spike.

Sapp · 05/05/07, 4:25 PM

It gets 20% of the Warlock's shadow power as healing, I tested this on my own time.

The increase you noticed was your Warlock using a trinket before recasting UA.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the Paladin's spellpower or abilities in any way shape or form, beyond him applying the Judgement (and having t4 2pc, if applicable).

I have some numbers testing from elsewhere, let me get them for you all.

Edit: here's the two posts I made elsewhere, apologies for not re-formatting them.

Well, it's a single entity doing it; everyone in the melee group on the malchezzar WWS from before got healed for the same 308 max and 279 low for "boosted" lights. I have negligible spellpower in damage gear, so it isn't using my spell power for keeping it up. Atta has 708 spell power that affects healing, so if your guy is at 900 the peak of 400 some might have been his 900 + a trinket boost when he applied it. What trinket does he use?

I'm currently checking the actual log file to see which paladin applied the JoL each time for the different values.

Edit: both times it was Talmage. Same Paladin each time. Forad was doing wisdom.

edit:

OK. Starts out healing for 101. This is base 95 * 1.06 (Improved Sanctity Aura), so that's to be expected. That means the 308 peak heals were all really for 290.

UA goes up. SoL heals for 279. With aura effect, that means it is really healing for 263. This is supported later on, It heals for 263 when I have to run out for an enfeeble and the aura fades from people. Later on it drops back to base value and goes back to 279's when UA is reapplied. Same value both times with UA. Edit: and it was 279 AGAIN even after the judgement was redone.

Now let me find what happened when it was healing for 308...

Edit: it was healing for 308 when Atta cast an Unstable Affliction right after proccing Flameshadow from his T4 2pc. Which is +135 spell power. He used no other active trinkets during the fight- at all. If it goes from 263 --> 290 with 135 spell power, that means a 27 point gain while 135 spell power is active, which means exactly a 20% coefficient. So now we need to check, does a 20% coeffcient for shadow damage power fit with other observed results?

Edit again: Atta has 860 shadow power right now under normal conditions. 20% of 860 = 172. 172 + 95 = 267. Doesn't quite fit. However, it's possible he was using a different trinket or slightly different gear during the fight, since he never triggers any trinket during the Malchezzar fight according the the WWS. If he had 20 less spell power four days ago than he did during the last time armory updated earlier tonight, than that would solve the problem and reveal what is going on.

My suspicion is that this is what causes it. Further testing is needed.

Edit again: side note of assuming your dude has 1300 shadow power gives 355 base heals, making that 376 with Sanctity. 400/proc is easily within reach of a trinket and consumable load-out of shadow power boosters. 42 for wizard oil, 65 for shadow power elixir, 150 for a trinket. 1550 * .2 = 310 + 95 = 405.

It all almost fits and I bet proper testing would nail it.

Just did some proper testing with Blasted Lands immortals; numbers as follows.

Conditions: sanctity aura was off. Healing was baselined to 95. Warlock had all gear and Fel Armor on. I hit the mob, he did nothing but cast UA once each test. (repeated each test ~5 times to confirm numbers)
HIGH POWER: 1018 - 298 heal, occasionally 299.
That means a 203-204 boost.
1018 / 5 = 203.6.
It fits.

Weapon and offhand removed. Fel Armor turned off.
LOW POWER: 736 power - 242/243 heal.
That means a 148 boost.
736 / 5 = 147.2.
It fits.

This is almost certainly how spell power is added to JoL.

Fjord · 05/05/07, 10:04 PM

Could be both! Philcrop, Zandig, did you have an affliction warlock on the run?

Zifna · 05/05/07, 10:18 PM

I was with on the run as well. We did have a warlock and we tested your Unstable Affliction hypothesis and saw no correlation. Indeed, I believe we saw it happen when we specifically had him stop casting it. We began talking about the change on the way to Aran. We then cleared the rest of the instance (including Netherspite).

Throughout this run we had Philcrop calling when he expected it to change and we had our physical dpsers calling the numbers they were getting on a regular basis as we pulled trash. We did not see one instance of inflated numbers when Phil had not intentionally inflated them and every time he made a call that they should go up now, the numbers increased.

Philcorp · 05/05/07, 10:53 PM

After reading the detailed post above we did further testing in a smaller group (Heroic SH ftw?), and I can confirm that it is ONLY related to UA. Apparently there were some terrible terrible coincidences with cast times in last nights kara raid, and I am sorry for the misinformation.

Sapp · 05/06/07, 3:04 PM

No problem. Watching for coincidences instead of testing something specifically has been a source for all sorts of scientific error in the real world, not to worry if it happens in a video game too.