Zaroua

Let's make this interesting; get a mod that tracks proc cooldowns and incorporate said cooldown in your raid UI. Get the new and improved proc to go off (thus starting the 50 second cooldown) and swap out to another weapon and swap back to your Spellsurge weapon once the hidden cooldown is back up.

Now... is the Spellsurge cooldown tied to your character or the weapon/enchant? If it's the later then I'm gonna start considering using 4 or 5 different healing weapons to get chain Spellsurge procs going.


Edit: This is for my Paladin but I don't expect it to be different for other classes; changing weapons mid-heal does not cancel your heal or trigger the global cooldown. I haven't thoroughly tested this but healing a guard in Ironforge showed that swapping weapons to play with Spellsurge doesn't trigger GCD.

If a Druid specs Moonkin in Darnassus, do the trainers still laugh at him?

 

Kazanir

It procs on warrior "spells" too. Yes, Brantus on Sargeras tested it and got Spellsurge to proc off of Demo Shout (and other warrior spells if memory serves.)

[13:07] <Kazanir> Vontre was responsible for Black Mesa
[13:08] <Vontre> Is Black Mesa some Half-Life thing?

 

Ragnor

I'm probably going to try this if I ever get maiden to drop her mace so can +heal that one and spell surge my current weapon.

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Steely

If you're a priest, you can just chuck a rank 1 PoH every 30 seconds or so and this is almost guaranteed to proc spellsurge. Also I found that if I am group buffing I usually end up with a spellsurge proc.

Considering how mp5 reliant we are it's just extra help. For some of the fights in Kara I'm reliant on chain casting top rank gheals to keep up with the damage (prince phase 2 anyone?). 81 healing on my weapon won't let me do this any longer nor neccessarily any better.

But as someone said earlier on in this thread, just carry around 1 weapon with an 81 healing enchant and one with spellsurge and use accordingly. I've got the Sha'tar mace for healing and Hand of Eternity for regen.

If you could convince all your group members to get it on their weapons it would be a pretty nice mana buff. However since I've been unable to convince my fellow guildy healers that the Sha'tar mace takes a set amount of hours to get whilst maiden/prince mace don't have to drop ever, I don't see myself having any success about explaining the benefits of spellsurge.

 

Oren

We've been rolling like that for a while now and its pretty solid. With intelligent group stacking(which I think we all pretty much do anyway for sp/shaman etc. these days), the return is quite good. Our WWS puts us at about 1.5 procs per minute per person, so even for a group with just three healers we're talking about thousands more mana.

 

• Erongg

If you can change out your weapon to get another proc, that would be very interesting. Blizzard would surely fix it though.

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Cel

You could do this with Crusader (and I assume Mongoose) if you used a macro to swap a third weapon in following a double Crusader proc. It really wasn't much of a DPS boost, if I remember correctly.

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◊ Shalas

The easiest way to test this would probably be an Ehn shaman with dual Spellsurge. If the number of procs is higher than with single spellsurge, it's item-specific, and character-specific otherwise. I suspect it's the latter though, as I can't think of any items with visible cooldowns where triggering the cooldown on one doesn't trigger it on all copies of that item you have.

 

subscience

I enchanted my Light's Justice with Spellsurge out of curiosity and so far I like it. Casters in my group noticed it before I had even mentioned it and with Mana Spring, 2/4 T4, and Improved Restorative Totems talent, I can provide nearly as much MP/5 to my group as a BoW.

I keep my Shard of the Virtuous with a healing enchant for when I'm in melee groups, though.

 

Cloudgatherer

But it's different for enchants. Double Crusader or Mongoose still work, right (or was that changed so they no longer stack)? So possibly a double spellsurge (for the dual wielding shaman case) could work as well.

 

Myul

But wheter crusader nor mongoose have a hidden cooldown, spellsurge has.

 

Belenos

If someone could show that you can swap weapons for more Spellsurge procs, I could be talked into updating CasterWeaponSwapper to somehow support this.

I'm not sure in practice how often you'll have 2 good weapons you'd like to swap between, but could it be as simple as casting till you get a proc, then unequipping and reequipping the weapon to get it again?

 

Cwealm

The most intriguing use of spellsurge (an enchant I actually have- dropped while grinding in Nagrand while levelling- interesting how that works, an enchant I don't even know much about drops by accident, and then I have to kill 800 ogres and an equal number of spell thieves for the +dam to bracer/weapon) that I have seen so far was a mage had me put it on his Gladiator staff. He said it was invaluable for 5v5. For raiding and pve, he used a +40 spell damage on his mainhand offhand combo, but insisted on spell surge for arenas.

Any thoughts?

 

constantius

I don't see it for Arenas.

Typical 5v5 match can last anywhere from 60 seconds to 3-4 minutes. That's a maximum of 8 procs of Spellsurge, which is 800 mana.

Comparatively, +30 Intellect is 450 guaranteed mana, and partial crit, and doesn't rely on a proc.

Maybe if you're on an all-caster-5v5-team, it might make sense ... otherwise, I'd think +30 int would be more valuable if you're struggling to find enough mana in PvP.

 

lynzh

Can someone update on 2.1 Spellsurge, is it still 15% hidden, or is it really 3% now?

 

Zaroua

Thought someone posted a test result saying that it was now a 50% proc with 50 sec cooldown.

If a Druid specs Moonkin in Darnassus, do the trainers still laugh at him?

 

Copernicus

That was a conclusion I drew from someone's reported test results. The report from test was never proccing in less than 50 seconds and always proccing within one minute. From the number of tests that they did, the quick guess math worked for 50% proc rate and 50 second cooldown.

From my post-patch WWS logs, it's proccing on live about once a minute. For all intents and purposes, you can pencil it in as 100 mana to the group every minute.

 

constantius

I'm getting procs significantly faster than 1 minute. I've seen 35 seconds, 40 seconds, most commonly 45 seconds or so between procs.

So the cooldown is definitely *not* 1 minute. The chance also seems to be strange -- if I get a proc, cast a few spells, then take a regen nap (say 15-20 seconds), my first spell cast after the downtime "seems" to be a high chance to force the proc.

This may be due to a high % proc with an enforced cooldown. I need to sit down and do some serious tests on it.

 

Kazanir

HYPOTHESIS:

Spellsurge has a 15% chance to proc on a spellcast. Spellsurge also has an internal cooldown of 50s -- that means that it will not proc for 50s after equipping a Spellsurge-enchanted weapon nor will it proc within 50s after the last time it procced.

POSSIBLE DISPROOFS:

1) Observing Spellsurge proc in less than 50 seconds following a previous Spellsurge proc or weapon equip.

2) Observing a significantly different mean value of "casts required to proc" than (1/.15)~6.67 casts.

TEST RESULTS:

I don't have a very big sample size yet but in my preliminary testing the average casts-to-proc is about 5 and I have not yet seen it proc inside the 50s window a single time. Real data forthcoming later today.

[13:07] <Kazanir> Vontre was responsible for Black Mesa
[13:08] <Vontre> Is Black Mesa some Half-Life thing?

 

bodicea

The proc is on your character and not on your weapon, so you can definitely switch out your weapon.

What I've been doing is starting with the spellsurge weapon, waiting for it to proc and when it procs starting a 50s timer and switch to the healing enchanted weapon. At the end of the 50s I go back to the spellsurge weapon until it procs again (usually no more than 5 spellcasts) and repeat. Takes a bit of practice to not forget to switch back and forth but it works quite well.

If you'd be able to update the mod to switch weapons when spellsurge procs and change back after 50seconds that would be pretty dang convenient though. The good thing about this is that your spellsurge weapon doesn't even need to be that good, you'll have it on for only a few seconds each time you're trying to get spellsurge to proc.

 

goodr

combat log of 7590 casts of healing touch rank 1

I started an experiment, but at this time, I am unable to do the parsing so I'm throwing my data up here in case someone else can.

I set myself up to cast Healing Touch (Rank 1) every 3 seconds overnight. Using a text editor to count the number of instances in the combat log here are my initial results:

- Number of times Healing Touch 1 cast: 7590
- Number of times gained Spellsurge: 340
- % of casts which triggered a proc: 4.48%
- Derived Procs Per Minute based on 3 seconds between casts: 0.90 PPM

When I tossed the combat log into a firefox and used the highlight function to highlight occurrences of 'gain Spellsurge', I eyeballed that the proc never occurred less than 30 seconds apart and probably never occurred less than 50 seconds apart (based on the eyeballing the number of HT casts in between procs).

I figure someone else can confirm this in a more methodical way. Tonight I can set up another overnight test with different parameters. I have a few possibilities, but if anyone wants to suggest a good test case, I'll run it and pass on the data again.

 

goodr

Possible Test Suggestions
- Cast only once per 60 seconds (assuming 50 second cooldown) to garner what the actual proc percentage is outside of the cooldown
- Cast only once every 6 or 9 seconds (instead of 3) to see if number of procs significantly change


What I can do is click something in a specified pattern indefinitely (click once every X seconds or click this 10 times then do nothing for 50 seconds, etc). If someone can give me an addon/macro which disables the spellcast on the button/macro for 50 seconds each time I gain spellsurge, that would make for an interesting set of data.

 

• giansm

Running a legitimate check on your data confirms that you never saw two procs closer than 50 seconds together, but you saw plenty at 50 seconds and above. If you look at every space between two procs and count how many are 50, 51, 52, etc seconds you get:

50: 5
51: 55
52: 0
53: 6
54: 39
55: 0
56: 1
57: 37
and so on...

Assuming these numbers mean that there were 5 + 55 = 60 times that spellsurge re-procced as soon as it came off cooldown (procs within less than 53 seconds of each other), the proc chance is 60 / 340 or about 17.6% (since the number of times you see a proc at the first opportunity should be the same as the proc chance). Checking a different way, by throwing out all spellcasts within 50 seconds of a spellsurge proc, leaves 2155 remaining spellcasts and suggests a 340 / 2155 = 15.7% proc chance.

It would be helpful to do something like wait one minute, cast HT1, wait 1 minute, cast HT13, repeat. This should provide two hopefully independent sets of data on spells with different cast times and all spellcasts should be free of the cooldown.

 

goodr

combat log with 727 casts of healing touch rank 1 - each 60 seconds apart

I set up another overnight test where my toon cast Healing Touch (Rank 1) once every 60 seconds. This would hopefully show what the proc rate is when a spell is cast outside the cooldown (assuming cooldown is 50 seconds).

- Casts of Healing Touch (Rank 1): 727
- Gains Spellsurge: 112

- Proc Percentage: 15.4%

I linked the combat log in case someone else wants to verify the results.

 

• Arnive