But wheter crusader nor mongoose have a hidden cooldown, spellsurge has.

The most intriguing use of spellsurge (an enchant I actually have- dropped while grinding in Nagrand while levelling- interesting how that works, an enchant I don't even know much about drops by accident, and then I have to kill 800 ogres and an equal number of spell thieves for the +dam to bracer/weapon) that I have seen so far was a mage had me put it on his Gladiator staff. He said it was invaluable for 5v5. For raiding and pve, he used a +40 spell damage on his mainhand offhand combo, but insisted on spell surge for arenas.

Any thoughts?

I don't see it for Arenas.

Typical 5v5 match can last anywhere from 60 seconds to 3-4 minutes. That's a maximum of 8 procs of Spellsurge, which is 800 mana.

Comparatively, +30 Intellect is 450 guaranteed mana, and partial crit, and doesn't rely on a proc.

Maybe if you're on an all-caster-5v5-team, it might make sense ... otherwise, I'd think +30 int would be more valuable if you're struggling to find enough mana in PvP.

Can someone update on 2.1 Spellsurge, is it still 15% hidden, or is it really 3% now?

That was a conclusion I drew from someone's reported test results. The report from test was never proccing in less than 50 seconds and always proccing within one minute. From the number of tests that they did, the quick guess math worked for 50% proc rate and 50 second cooldown.

From my post-patch WWS logs, it's proccing on live about once a minute. For all intents and purposes, you can pencil it in as 100 mana to the group every minute.

I'm getting procs significantly faster than 1 minute. I've seen 35 seconds, 40 seconds, most commonly 45 seconds or so between procs.

So the cooldown is definitely *not* 1 minute. The chance also seems to be strange -- if I get a proc, cast a few spells, then take a regen nap (say 15-20 seconds), my first spell cast after the downtime "seems" to be a high chance to force the proc.

This may be due to a high % proc with an enforced cooldown. I need to sit down and do some serious tests on it.

HYPOTHESIS:

Spellsurge has a 15% chance to proc on a spellcast. Spellsurge also has an internal cooldown of 50s -- that means that it will not proc for 50s after equipping a Spellsurge-enchanted weapon nor will it proc within 50s after the last time it procced.

POSSIBLE DISPROOFS:

1) Observing Spellsurge proc in less than 50 seconds following a previous Spellsurge proc or weapon equip.

2) Observing a significantly different mean value of "casts required to proc" than (1/.15)~6.67 casts.

TEST RESULTS:

I don't have a very big sample size yet but in my preliminary testing the average casts-to-proc is about 5 and I have not yet seen it proc inside the 50s window a single time. Real data forthcoming later today.

combat log of 7590 casts of healing touch rank 1

I started an experiment, but at this time, I am unable to do the parsing so I'm throwing my data up here in case someone else can.

I set myself up to cast Healing Touch (Rank 1) every 3 seconds overnight. Using a text editor to count the number of instances in the combat log here are my initial results:

- Number of times Healing Touch 1 cast: 7590
- Number of times gained Spellsurge: 340
- % of casts which triggered a proc: 4.48%
- Derived Procs Per Minute based on 3 seconds between casts: 0.90 PPM

When I tossed the combat log into a firefox and used the highlight function to highlight occurrences of 'gain Spellsurge', I eyeballed that the proc never occurred less than 30 seconds apart and probably never occurred less than 50 seconds apart (based on the eyeballing the number of HT casts in between procs).

I figure someone else can confirm this in a more methodical way. Tonight I can set up another overnight test with different parameters. I have a few possibilities, but if anyone wants to suggest a good test case, I'll run it and pass on the data again.

Possible Test Suggestions
- Cast only once per 60 seconds (assuming 50 second cooldown) to garner what the actual proc percentage is outside of the cooldown
- Cast only once every 6 or 9 seconds (instead of 3) to see if number of procs significantly change


What I can do is click something in a specified pattern indefinitely (click once every X seconds or click this 10 times then do nothing for 50 seconds, etc). If someone can give me an addon/macro which disables the spellcast on the button/macro for 50 seconds each time I gain spellsurge, that would make for an interesting set of data.

Running a legitimate check on your data confirms that you never saw two procs closer than 50 seconds together, but you saw plenty at 50 seconds and above. If you look at every space between two procs and count how many are 50, 51, 52, etc seconds you get:

50: 5
51: 55
52: 0
53: 6
54: 39
55: 0
56: 1
57: 37
and so on...

Assuming these numbers mean that there were 5 + 55 = 60 times that spellsurge re-procced as soon as it came off cooldown (procs within less than 53 seconds of each other), the proc chance is 60 / 340 or about 17.6% (since the number of times you see a proc at the first opportunity should be the same as the proc chance). Checking a different way, by throwing out all spellcasts within 50 seconds of a spellsurge proc, leaves 2155 remaining spellcasts and suggests a 340 / 2155 = 15.7% proc chance.

It would be helpful to do something like wait one minute, cast HT1, wait 1 minute, cast HT13, repeat. This should provide two hopefully independent sets of data on spells with different cast times and all spellcasts should be free of the cooldown.

So anyone know of a mod that pops up a 50s timer bar when spellstrike procs? I'd like something like that to help me manage weapon swapping for maximum effect.