[Mage] Viable Raid Spec/Spell Rotation

Treos · 04/05/07, 11:00 AM

Ive been playing a mage since TBC came out, I rerolled on a new server and went with Mage. I have tried out the three different specs that i have been seeing that is good for raiding. After going through the 2k+ post thread about mage Theorycraft, I could not find anything I was really looking for and it will be a hassle for anyone else looking for what I am currently looking for.

I have done a 10/0/51 deep frost and it just seems like my damage is lacking.

I then respecced to the 10/48/3 deep fire and it just didn't seem like it was cutting for me.

I am now 40/21/0 And it seems to have the most potential for the most amount of damage, I seem to run OOM at the end of boss fights in Karazhan.

Which spec do you guys deem the best to do the most amount of damage over an entire raid night?

Also, with each spec, what is the best spell rotation? My latency is ~200ish.

Thanks.

Maligne · 04/05/07, 11:21 AM

Deep fire will outperform everything on boss fights, even more so when your +damage approaches very high levels (900+). Fireball spam will produce the most DPS.

40/21/0 will perform very well at medium levels of +damage, and will give you more options outside of boss fights (arcane power/POM). This one will probably produce more damage over the entire night, because on trash you can easily excel by spamming blast and drinking immediately after. This obviously won't work on boss fights, and you'll have to switch to some sort of AB overlap cycle.

I personally prefer 3x/0/2x because it allows for competetive DPS on raids and gives me most of the frost tricks for PVP.

Leto · 04/05/07, 11:23 AM

With your current gear level, arcane/fire would be the most dps for you, while providing a good amount of flexibility and some pvp viability.

For a pure raiding arcane/fire build, I'd probably go something along these lines:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

As for cycles, download http://radiationnow.net/wow/mage_dps.xls

then check your optimal cycle based on fight duration.

Eventually you well get more comfortable with adjusting cycles on the fly based on current mana consumption, mob health, but the basic premise is that you will cast a variable number of arcane blasts, then insert fireballs or scorches to eat the time until the ab debuff is about to fade, and start casting the next ab right before the debuff is about to fade. This will allow you to take advantage of the shorter cast time on ab from that debuff, but it will start a new debuff stack once the ab hits.

Phalanx · 04/05/07, 11:42 AM

You didn't equip your Tinfoil Hat before logging out, so I Armory'd you.

We're pretty equivalent in terms of gear, and I have the 4x/2y/0 spec listed above (with Slow instead of Blast Wave). I'm happy with my damage now that I've figured out how to use the spec best (for me).

If I don't have a Shadow Priest (and wow, do they help this spec in particular), I use a AB x 3/Scorch x 4 on boss fights before I get to a point where I can just spam AB. It's different for every fight, but you'll figure out those points quick. Even if I do have a Shadow Priest, I still use the rotation in the beginning of a long encounter, but they allow me to start spamming a lot sooner. If range or Arcane immunity is a concern, I go the Scorch debuff/Fireball spam. It's decent, the improved crits are nice here. Trash and 5-mans is usually just AB spam.

But, since you're tailoring. I'd (personally) focus on those Spellfire and Spellstrike sets and start saving for a Blade of Wizardry. Depends on how much you like the Arc/Fire spec once you figure it out.

Treos · 04/05/07, 11:43 AM

Here is my current spec I am running: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...000000000#none

I just do not see the point in running Blast Wave in PvE, I have not seen a use for it in anyway in the raiding scene as most mobs I could use it against are immune to the daze.

As it stands right now here are my stats with AI and MA up:

Spell Damage: 837 with the buffs from the Arcane Tree
Crit: 17.00% (18.43% for fire)
Int: 493 with AI

I am currently stuck at no. 2/3 on the damage lists behind two extremely good/geared Rogues and I just cannot seem to break the barrier on them and go into the top spot.

Phalanx · 04/05/07, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Treos

Here is my current spec I am running: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...000000000#none

I just do not see the point in running Blast Wave in PvE, I have not seen a use for it in anyway in the raiding scene as most mobs I could use it against are immune to the daze.

As it stands right now here are my stats with AI and MA up:

Spell Damage: 837 with the buffs from the Arcane Tree
Crit: 17.00% (18.43% for fire)
Int: 493 with AI

I am currently stuck at no. 2/3 on the damage lists behind two extremely good/geared Rogues and I just cannot seem to break the barrier on them and go into the top spot.

I don't want to start a class war, but typically there is enough melee deterrence on many encounters for ranged DPS to consistently be ahead on the DPS meters for most encounters. That said, I don't know their gear or their spec (or even if I did, what that would mean, really).

I think what you might be able to gather is there some damage on the table for you to take advantage of. Looking at your current spec:

* Get rid of IAM. There really isn't too much of a use for this spell except for certain instances. As much as I'd like to be, it's not suitable for a main nuke -- AB most definitely is. Not to mention that a 10% to hit bonus you get from Arcane Focus is a staple talent for that tree (it helps Counterspell, Spell Steal, Polymorph as well).

* I'd also go with Arcane Impact, though the Magic Attunment can be useful.

* Any particular reason for Arcane Fortitude? Does +250 armor really help a caster for PvE?

Try the spec mentioned above (swap Slow for Blast Wave if you want) and start using a rotation on boss fights. Figure out when it's safe to spam AB and try to end the fight with close to or zero mana (you have gems and Evocation if you guess wrong). On trash, you can safely spam AB.

I think you'll see a big difference.

Treos · 04/05/07, 12:11 PM

I made that build before really realizing how good AB could be as being the main nuke during an encounter, and that is why there are points that seem to be "wasted".

Take for instance, a medium length boss fight of ~4/5 minutes, would the AB x 3/Scorch x 4 rotation be best suited or would you be better off spamming fireballs after adding another scorch up there to take full advantage of the fire vulnerability.

Also, do you guys believe that AM is worth casting at any point OTHER than when clear cast is up or do you guys think a straight up AB/Scorch rotation is the best for longer fights?

Leto · 04/05/07, 12:38 PM

With 40+ points in arcane, you're going to want to use AB whenever you can.

The only time I'd use am is for VERY long fights, on clearcast. AB/Scorch will probably last you though, depends on your gear, consumable use, buffs, etc.

Phalanx · 04/05/07, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Treos

I made that build before really realizing how good AB could be as being the main nuke during an encounter, and that is why there are points that seem to be "wasted".

Take for instance, a medium length boss fight of ~4/5 minutes, would the AB x 3/Scorch x 4 rotation be best suited or would you be better off spamming fireballs after adding another scorch up there to take full advantage of the fire vulnerability.

Also, do you guys believe that AM is worth casting at any point OTHER than when clear cast is up or do you guys think a straight up AB/Scorch rotation is the best for longer fights?

I try to work in another AB instead of AM on Clearcasts, I don't really ever use it with my current spec and playstyle.

The one time I still use it is on that first boss in Auchenai Crypts (the one with the cast time aura).

Treos · 04/05/07, 1:03 PM

With scorch being the secondary spell I use and AB being the primary nuke, then how useful is getting the full 5/5 out of Ignite? My scorch without any of the fire vulns will crit for 1300 and 40% of that is roughly 400 damage. Is that worth the 5 talent points?

Phalanx · 04/05/07, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Treos

With scorch being the secondary spell I use and AB being the primary nuke, then how useful is getting the full 5/5 out of Ignite? My scorch without any of the fire vulns will crit for 1300 and 40% of that is roughly 400 damage. Is that worth the 5 talent points?

1700 damage for 1.5 sec cast at ~170 mana is nothing to be upset about.

There will be times when you need to use Scorch/Fireball alone. When either Arcane immunity (Karazhan) or range is a consideration (Gruul, among other places) that having the added damage from a Scorch/Fireball/Pyroblast crit is nice. Also, it's much easier to ramp an Ignite chain, as they work now, with Scorch -- if you happen to get 2 or more crits in your rotation, that's some nice extra damage.

A better question would be to ask, where would you put those 5 points if you're main goal is PvE?

Evalara · 04/05/07, 3:19 PM

I just respecced from 10/0/51 to 33/28/0 and it's amazing. Without any tailoring gear (~800 +dmg, 27% crit with MA) I'm now competitve with our full Shadoweave/Battlecast shadowpriest. 10k self-buffed mana and all the arcane clicky-tricks are nice too. I'm feeling a little starved of spell hit but I can fix that with gear.

thebuddha · 04/05/07, 3:54 PM

Originally Posted by Treos

Which spec do you guys deem the best to do the most amount of damage over an entire raid night?

10/48/3 is the only raid spec where you can even hope to compare with warlocks.

Treos · 04/05/07, 3:55 PM

That's the problem, I don't see anywhere else to spend the 5 points that would better suit my PvE need.

• frmorrison · 04/05/07, 7:35 PM

Originally Posted by Treos

That's the problem, I don't see anywhere else to spend the 5 points that would better suit my PvE need.

What is the problem with getting Ignite? Sure it is 5 talent points that maybe aren't giving you as much damage as you hope, but it still is worth the points since there is nothing else giving you the same return at the point in the tree.