[Warrior] Threat gen tips - Page 2

Whiteknight · 04/06/07, 2:34 PM

Devastate 'spam' isn't an effective tanking technique regardless of which weapon you're using. The itemization doesn't yet allow devastate to be more hate than revenge/shield slam, so you're better off using your GCDs for Shield Slam and Revenge.

This means in a given cycle (between shield slam cooldowns), you're going to be using devastate once, or maybe not at all.

Compare this to a 1.6 speed weapon which will hit almost 4 times with heroic strike in the same timeframe.

HS/fast weapon is still the way to go, unless you actually have to do dps as a prot warrior (Aran for example).

Rand · 04/06/07, 7:58 PM

I haven't seen anyone mention block value yet. One of the more fun things to do on trash and 5-mans (heroic even) is to stack a bunch of block value in as many slots as possible (maybe save some badges for the Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker). 600+ passive block value (w/ Shield Mastery) isn't too difficult to attain with various blues and some raid gear. Maybe throw in some dps plate to boost your crit/ap/hit and watch the trinketed 2000+ shield slam crits fly. It still provides decent mitigation, especially against fast attacking mobs (or multiple mobs) and there's nothing like opening up with a big shield slam crit at the beginning of a pull, allowing dps to dive right in. Relying mainly on Shield Slam can sometimes be problematic because of dodge/parry, so disarming first (where possible) can be beneficial, if it does indeed eliminate parry (correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any parries yet after disarming a "disarmable" mob).

If you need to be in full survival gear for a boss or hard hitting raid trash, and still have plenty of rage, I've found it helpful to link Heroic Strike to other abilities with the use of macros, for those situations when I almost can't spend rage fast enough. I currently have HS linked to Shield Slam, Shield Block, Devastate, and Revenge. It will only activate HS if the skill it's linked to is on cooldown (ie. when you're spamming instants). Otherwise, in rage starved situations, you can just hit the ability once when its cooldown is up, and it won't activate HS. I had to train myself not to spam buttons in those situations, but it was well worth it.

Example:

#showtooltip
/cast Shield Slam
/cast Heroic Strike

..is all you need. Then just do the same for Devastate, Revenge etc. if you feel so inclined. Since Heroic Strike doesn't activate the GCD, you can still get away with using two /casts in the same macro.

Zamaar · 04/07/07, 4:22 AM

I tried making a macro with /cast shield block /stopcasting /cast revenge /stopcasting, /cast shield slam /stopcasting, /cast sunder armor (and one with devastate for when 5 sunders are up) /stopcasting /cast heroic strike.
what I wanted it to do was try to cast the first one, if it's on cd then cast the second one and so on and it will always cast heroic strike, but it didn't work, it only casted the first one on the list and if it was on cd it just did bla bla not ready + heroic strike, any idea how to make a macro to check for cooldowns? because such a macro would make my fingers hurt much less on long boss fights

• Chicken · 04/07/07, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by Zamaar

I tried making a macro with /cast shield block /stopcasting /cast revenge /stopcasting, /cast shield slam /stopcasting, /cast sunder armor (and one with devastate for when 5 sunders are up) /stopcasting /cast heroic strike.
what I wanted it to do was try to cast the first one, if it's on cd then cast the second one and so on and it will always cast heroic strike, but it didn't work, it only casted the first one on the list and if it was on cd it just did bla bla not ready + heroic strike, any idea how to make a macro to check for cooldowns? because such a macro would make my fingers hurt much less on long boss fights

That functionality was specifically broken with the 2.0 patch; you'll have to get your fingers used to the Aggro Tango.

You could try it with /castrandom, but I'd recommend not doing so.

7Sam · 04/14/07, 12:09 PM

Over my last curator kill on kara I was with 9 "strangers" as I was a singed, for that week, with my guild's second raid group.

This setup use OT that sit on tank gear use 1h\shild and make sure he is second on threat (according to KTM).

Yet, my setup use me (DPS warrior, DW deep Fury spced (17\44\1)) to just dps my way and stay second on threat.

However the raid leader\mt (witch happand to lead our 25man as well) refused to even try with G2 (nick name for other groups name) tactick, and told me to go tank gear, and so I did yet with twist:

I used my dps rings\trinkets\feet\neck, with access to rampage and imp battle shout (no leader of pack however) I made it to 22% crit chance and 2,000AP.

My rotation involved the usual "tank stuff" with BT\OP when possible and more heroics then unseal, (sitting on battle stance half the fight).

Bottom line: it was insane, I don't have the additional 10% threat of def stance as the MT do, yet I was able to not only keep up with him, but leave him at my dust, althow his rage gen is (due to dmg taken) higher then my.

So basically what I done that fight was get really close to MT (meaning leaving rest of raid far bhind, as I must stay #2 for w\e reason) then quit attacking all together let 3rd person on threat get to 5k threte gap from me (meaning around 50k gap from me to MT) and then rush the 50k window and see how fast I can do this (its more then 50 as the mt still keep gathering while i do my 50) and well, done it twice on that twice on my fight... and damn it was easy.

My usual TPS is around 420 with spikabilty (can u even say that) of reaching 720 on rare cases but not sustaining that, with 22%crit 2kAP I was able to sustain over 1150 for around 15secends (didn't try more as I would have stolen the aggro).

So... you guys might also want to try this some time... sure is fun.

Edit: oh yeah speaking of threat, well, back when I was pvp scped (35\23\3) on trash pulls of lets say 8humnionds before morass or small snakes (mana things) before shade, I used to pop trinkt+death wish+sweep strike, and then just ww+cleav(not improved) (ofc use BT when cleav queued WW on cd and rage left) and well hold aggro on 6+targets outputing 1620tps while not enraged...when enraged well ... more :P, the only two problems with that are:
1) 8k hp 5k armor :P.
2) mobs die so fast (its trash after all) that u don't got much time to check KTM and such.
we did MC 40man (speed run 4fun) the other day, with mt+ot cuple of dps warriors and so on, well on some molten destroyer I found great way to bost dps: pop moking block after tank's taunt fade xD (takes cuple of asinged healers to make it workflawlessly).

Second edit: some thing didnt click for me regarding stats, I loged the game now and tryed recreate this, so first off I also had 20str food buff, a side of that the gear setup is:
def legs\bracer\chest\shoulder\1h\shild rest = dps (ranged\trinkt\ring\feet\belt\glove\head\neck\back).

Kaubel · 04/14/07, 12:15 PM

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7Sam · 04/14/07, 12:56 PM

My bad, my replay to Kaubel saying is off topic, please delete my saying. (This post, not above one).

Daboran · 04/14/07, 1:30 PM

As already said, Druids can find it very easy to pull aggro off Warriors in some situations (remember also it is Blizzards intention for aggro control to become one of the skills every class needs to learn).

I'm having similar issue with our guild MT at present, even to the extent of downgrading my gear on certain fights. I need to speak to him actually. I tend to think theres a combination of things going on. Not only am I slightly better geared in terms of DPS, but I think the my MT is playing it a bit safe with gear choices in order to alleviate demands on the healers.

It's a pretty fine balancing act. The limiting factor on dps for many classes in a lot of fights is now how much threat your MT can put out rather than mana/rage/energy. I tend to think it's preferable that Druids can if necessary put out that degree of threat on an OT situation. Certainly on Gruul it makes it a lot easier to make sure I'm the HS tank ahead of any over-enthusiastic Rogue/Fury Warr.

Best solution imho is just find the best skill rotation and if necessary tell your Druid to cool it on those fights where you can't swap in DPS gear to up your threat.

7Sam · 04/14/07, 3:43 PM

I just posted the above to suggest that in none-survivability issue fights (unlike prince lets say) to tossing in some dps rings\trinkets and possible even more items, while keeping some minimal level of tank gear, just to result higher threat gen, could be good idea.

If the MT of the target in question have high threat gen, then not only that its "safer" for other raid members (or group) it also make it so that they can dps "harder" result in shorter fights, and on trash lets say, if you do every fight faster the total time you save from first pull to last kill could be much.

And none survivability fights are usually what OT gets, and higher threat gen for OT means easer life for him to match up with MT's high threat gen that is direct result of dmg taken translates to rage and of course.

moodle · 04/16/07, 9:39 AM

When tanking trash:
Use shield block to proc revenge
Don't worry about sunders
Don't use devestate
Focus on Shield Slam, Revenge, and HS(Spec for imp HS)
With this strat puts me at 650-750 TPS

When Tanking Bosses:
Always keep shield block up
Wait for at least 10k threat before applying sunders (I wait till 10k-20k to start applying.)
If you are a serious PVE main tank and rage is an issue spec imp sunder because it is more rage efficient for threat value then devestate is.
Dump excess rage into HS every chance you get.
This usually puts me at 750-1000TPS depending on the encounter.

If you really are having threat issues and your dps is a bunch of idiots make sure the shaman in your party is dropping wind furry especially with the 2.1 nerfs coming up they might as well get use to it because it will be your best buff for threat generation.

moodle · 04/16/07, 9:48 AM

BTW The Sun Eater(from Heroic Mech) is the best mitigation weapon that I have seen.

You lose 7 agil and 9 stam but you gain 1 def point and 18 dodge.

You also gain about 11dps which would help out your threat issues if your using HS efficiently.

Zanthor · 04/16/07, 10:19 AM

I've found that my best threat gen comes as many above have mentioned, stick with shield slam/revenge if they are up, sunder x 5 when you can and devastate after that.

I sit right around 40% dodge/parry combined in my tanking gear, this can lead to very streaky rage generation at the start of most fights... one thing I've found in karazhan is that most trash doesn't require that much evasion. I swap out two or three big dodge pieces for some +hit gear with similar stam/armor on it (Namely my cloak/neck and a ring) goes a long ways to giving me enough rage at the start of the fight, and on trash doesn't matter at all... I also ensure that I always have shield block up for revenge, and spam heroic strike if the rage is there for it.

Raydin · 04/16/07, 1:27 PM

It was mentioned in a previous post, but I'd like to reiterate that swapping gear out for different situations can make a huge difference in threat generation. I use Wardrobe to switch between two different sets of tank gear. One prioritizes shield block value, parry, and + hit, the other stacks stamina and dodge rating. The first set I can use for most of Karazhan, the second is for Nightbane/Prince and Gruul's. I used to be a huge fan of parry, but it takes so much +rating to get a decent percentage that you can only bother to beef that up when mitigation isn't a concern. Play with different items in different slots, and see what works for you.

stampy · 04/16/07, 2:57 PM

starting from the full rage-rich situation where you can shield slam every cooldown, keep shield block up, spam a sunder/devastate every global cooldown, and heroic strike every swing:

the first to go needs to be heroic strike. heroic strike sucks down rage like nobodys business, and is by far your lowest threat per rage ability.

next up is actually shield block... dont use shield block to proc revenge! 15 rage per 4 seconds is a LOT. shield block is for mitigation... if you are fighting a mob who isnt 73 (eg, not a full 15% crushing blow chance, and smaller crushes to boot), shield block is a luxury. unless of course they really hit like trains... in which case, youve probably got plenty of rage anyways. if you are staying over 50% and your healers arent sucking wind on mana without shield block, its a waste of rage. mobs need to earn shield block... dont pander to the weak ones. youre a warrior, damnit.

if you cant pop revenge reasonably often without using shield block, take a look at your gear. see where you can amplify your defense, block rating, and parry rating (ouch! parry rating hurts the item budget); even if its just on a trash-fighting kit. even with pretty nominal levels, you should be blocking and parrying plenty... unless perhaps youve totally whored yourself out for dodge.

next up, get rid of the sunder/devastates. it can feel strange to let a global cooldown pass you by, but at that point you are looking to max out threat per abilities. dont sunder/devastate if it means you arent going to have the rage for shield slam when it comes up.

finally, use dirty tricks. if the mob isnt taunt and stun immune, let some dps overnuke and get a bunch of aggro while you just autoattack and save rage.... drop a conc blow on it and let the dps continue to nuke the crap out of it. just before the concussion blow wears off, taunt/shield slam/revenge... youve just stolen all your #1 dpser's threat for free, thrown a couple thousand aggro on top, and opened up the 10%/30% margin by getting the top threat as high as possible instead of just keeping pace. if you were smart enough to roll tauren, a war stomp before the conc can make this unstoppable.

most importantly, know your raid.
know when youre low on aggro, and you need to sacrifice mitigation and debuffs (demo shout, sunders) to max out your aggro.
know when you have aggro locked down, and use abilities that do more damage (shield slam yes, revenge no) and keep you safer (shiled block, clap, demo shout) to preserve raid mana and keep moving fast.
know when {shadow priest/warlock/silly druid dpsing in bear} is going to pull aggro no matter what you do, and let them... let them steal aggro while you save up rage, then steal their aggro back for free with a well timed taunt.
if your raid is playing sloppy, know who you need to save, know who is expendable, and know who can save themselves if theyd only pay attention.
dont ever taunt off a hunter.
intervene with a targettarget macro can save a life while crowd control is being refreshed, without breaking the sheep/shackle/trap if youre late... if you changed targets to use it, autoattack is already off.
dont ever, ever, ever use abilities on a tauntable mob when youre just going to have to taunt it soon anyways.

anyone who thinks a set ability rotation or a certain set of stat priorities is best will never be as good a tank as they could be. anyone who doesnt have disarm on their bar or hasnt stunned an off mob while building initial threat on the focus isnt being creative enough to be a really great tank.

to be honest, im scared that eventually druid's scaling threat is going to scale past where we can even pretend to keep pace with our mostly static abilities. but, at least we have enough toys to keep it interesting. always be active, always be adaptable, always look for a better way. itll keep your tanking effective, and it will keep it from getting boring.

• Darkmyst · 04/16/07, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Zamaar

I tried making a macro with /cast shield block /stopcasting /cast revenge /stopcasting, /cast shield slam /stopcasting, /cast sunder armor (and one with devastate for when 5 sunders are up) /stopcasting /cast heroic strike.
what I wanted it to do was try to cast the first one, if it's on cd then cast the second one and so on and it will always cast heroic strike, but it didn't work, it only casted the first one on the list and if it was on cd it just did bla bla not ready + heroic strike, any idea how to make a macro to check for cooldowns? because such a macro would make my fingers hurt much less on long boss fights

You can do it with 2 different macros + manually keeping HS lite when rage was aplenty. It's hard to integrate HS into these macros because you either never get to it (putting it at the end) or you have to lengthen the reset time (meaning you won't be getting the maximum number of Shield Block/Revenge cycles in).

/castsequence reset=5/shift Shield Block, Revenge, Shield Slam, Sunder Armor

/castsequence reset=5/shift Shield Block, Revenge, Shield Slam, Devastate

Use the first one until 5 sunders are up and then use the second macro after that.

The reset=5/shift means that the macro will reset to the first ability every 5 seconds - the cool down on SB/revenge - since you never want to miss a SB/Revenge cycle if you are looking to maximize TPS. Or you can manually reset the timer by holding down <SHIFT> when hitting your macro key.

Edit: And no these aren't perfect. There is no guareentee that you will have Revenge light in the GC time after the initial SB. But you can lengthen the reset timer to what works for you. To that end you could use the following variation that takes the reset timer out and only has a manual reset set ability. In this case, unless you reset the macro it will cycle thourhg abilities - skipping ones on cooldown - until it gets to the last one and the resets back to the first one. But you may still end upwith less than optimal ability sequences in some situations. You could end up with SB, SS, Sunder, Sunder, SB, SS, Sunder from the macro below if you get unlucky and revenge isn't lit the next time you hit the macro after it fires SB.

/castsequence reset=shift Shield Block, Revenge, Shield Slam, Sunder Armor