Mage trinket advice - Page 2

Vhad · 04/07/07, 1:55 AM

I went back to using Icon + MoD instead of quagmirran's eye because the regen it offers is just amazing and lets me chain cast fireballs alot longer, if I have shadowpriest I use the eye but doesn't happen alot.

PapaShlapa · 04/07/07, 3:40 AM

My paper napkin calculations on the Eye proc were as follows.

Assumptions:
-My own spec, 40/0/21
-The eye has a 10% chance to proc
-The cooldown is 18s
-The haste time is 6s

Given a 2.6s cast including lag(generous given my 50ms ping), it will proc once, on average, every 26 seconds. It will then be on cooldown for 18 seconds, making it proc once every 44 seconds, on average. When it procs, it takes your frostbolt from 2.5s to 1.9s. In this time you can get off 3 frostbolts. Therefor, it "saves" you 1.8s of casting time, every 44 seconds. Essentially, it saves you 4.1% of the time you would have been casting, which can be considered a 4.1% increase in dps.

For me, using a rotation of ABx2(or 3)/Frostboltx2/Scorch, if I proc a spell haste somewhere in the rotation where I can get off 2 hastened frostbolts, I'll be able to make it a 3bolt cycle, which is a big jump in dps for the cycle it occurs in. However, if I'm doing 3ab, and proc it during the frostbolt side of the cycle, I'll hasten the already 1.5s AB under GCD and essentially waste the proc for that one spell. Ups and downs. Luckily I don't use 3ab very often.

Modelling it for a 10/48/3 spec.
Given a 3.1s cast, including lag. Same as above mostly. It hastens fireball from 3.0s to 2.3s cast. You'll now proc it once every 49 seconds. You still get 3 fireballs off hastened, so "save" 2.1s of casting time every 49 seconds. This ends up with 4.28% dps increase.

One interesting thing to note, is that originally the Thottbot spell data showed the Eye proc at 15%, but now it's shown as 10%. Maybe they nerfed it. I don't know.

Any input on my very rough calculations is appreciated, as always.

Darkmantle · 04/07/07, 9:02 AM

Has anyone got a screenshot of an eye proc within 20 seconds of the previous proc. In 10 minutes of dr boom searing pain spam I never got the eye to proc in under 50 seconds. People in the spell haste thread experienced similar things.

zepi · 04/07/07, 10:15 AM

I saw someone mentioning 44sec time between procs, but my educated guess is that Quag's invisible CD is 45 seconds.

Chain casting against Mr. Boom using procwatch should help to determine it eventually. This would change the calculations a bit.

Assuming the 10% procrate is correct and 45sec CD:
log(0,5;0,9)= 6,578 casts for a proc.

Assuming 2.6sec frostbolts: avg proc interval is 45sec + 6.578*2.6 = 62,1sec
Assuming 3,1sec Fireballs: proc interval is about 65,4sec

Frostbolt: 1.8 sec saved = 1.8/2.6 * ~2700 = 1870 over 62secs is about 30dps.

Fireball: 2.1sec of saved castingtime equals 2.1/3.1 * Fireball avg damage (3500?) for every proc. ~2370damage over 65sec, or about 37dps.

Getting 37dps for fireball assuming normal raid debuffs (coe, misery, imp scorch etc..) is about 60 +dmg assuming ~30% critrate.

So actually Quag Proc alone is probably on par with Neltharion or Icon of Silver Crescent in terms of sustained DPS. Overall, it's worth almost constant +100dmg for normal fireball even after the nerfs.

morphene · 04/12/07, 9:55 AM

I too am having a hard time in selecting trinkets for various play situations. I am 33/28 and thus am crit heavy and rely on crit damage and crit items a lot.

I have:
The Lightning Capacitor
Quagmirran's Eye
Scryer's Bloodgem
Xi'ri's Gift
Argussian Compass

plus a few older ones or less effective ones that dont seem worth considering

I also have the badges to buy the Icon of the Silver Crescent, but I am hesitant as a warrior that bought his heroic trinket indicated that while the buff time was longer, the cooldown was equivalently longer, most use trinkets cooldowns being 90 seconds, his heroic trinket he reported as having a 120 second cooldown. In the end doesnt this make it a wash over a 90 second cooldown trinket? I use frequently use macros (except vs bosses and in pvp) that auto use my trinkets whenever they are up.

I love the lightning capacitor and very infrequently find myself not wearing it.

Here is what I've been using in different setups:

Full DPS against level 70 or lower mobs: Capacitor + Quag's Eye
Vs level bosses: Scryer's Bloodgem + Xi'ri's Gift ( no capacitor as it does not use your +hit) [ 142 hit in raid gear with the bloodgem on]
Trash in raid dungeons, 71-72: Capacitor + Scryer's Bloodgem
PVP: Capacitor + Xi'ri's Gift (though strongly considering the Argussian Compass for the +sta)

Any comments on these trinkets or the right places to use them? Is it worth it to buy the Icon of the silver crescent? According to the Mage_dps.xls spreadsheet with my build and gear i get the same damage increase from 15 crit than i do from 20 spell damage. so the crit on Xi'ri's vs the Icon's spell damage is pretty much a wash.

Thanks!

Mortos · 04/15/07, 9:48 PM

All of you are talking mostly about
The Lightning Capacitor, Quagmirran's Eye, Scryer's Bloodgem, Xi'ri's Gift and Icon of the Silver Crescent
I wonder where Shiffar's Nexus-Horn gets into it all...

especially in a heavy crit Arc/Fire spec (33/28/0)
with 20% proc of crits it give you about 6%-8% proc rate for +215 dmg for 15 sec.. much better then both Xi'ri's Gift and Icon of the Silver Crescent on use ability
the problem is that like Quagmirran's Eye its an on use item.

been thinking about it alot since I dont want to farm Arcatraz for a trinket I wont use
(note dont have The Lightning Capacitor or Icon of the Silver Crescent)

thanks.

Teenee · 04/15/07, 10:39 PM

I tend to use Shiffar when I'm doing cycles. Quag is very sexy for 1-spell spam. But if you're trying to pull of Scorch/AB cycles, Quag becomes an annoyance due to "that spell is not ready" errors, and messing your cycles up.

I carry 4 trinkets in my bags at all times, Quag, MQG, Shiffar and Icon. I usually raid with Icon and Quag. Swap to Shiffar when I'm grinding (and I tend to Scorch more when grinding). MQG is limited, but I've found uses for it many heroics, so I still pack it. When I was 33/28 I had a 50/50 chance to either "feel like" Fireball spam, or AB/Scorch cycles. I swapped Quag/Shiffars depending on mood

Zaknafein · 04/16/07, 6:18 AM

Personally i'm using Icon + MoD because I'm generally not grouped with a Shadowpriest and MoD helps quite a bit with Scorch spam. Quag's Eye also just refuses to drop for me so i'll be sticking with this combo for a while it seems.

As for your question, I entered your stats in Vontre's spreadsheet and the difference going from Icon to Xi'ri's Gift is -14 DPS :P So, was definitely worth it that you grabbed it!

Darkchani · 04/17/07, 12:14 PM

with the nerf to haste rating, it feels like nef tear might just be back up to worth equipping over quag's eye, along with the scryer's bloodgem... anyone have a good spreadsheet that can compare thoses 2 ? (for a 10/48/3 spec i should add)

Ezareth · 04/19/07, 10:56 AM

Just a couple notes:

Shiffars was nerfed again to 30 crit rating instead of 32.

Sextant of Unstable Currents has the same cooldown as Shiffars(45 seconds).

You can use both and have both proc at the same time and they DO stack but shiffars still has 50 more damage on its proc, lasts the same time but procs 20% versus the sextants 50%.

Tempestra · 04/19/07, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ezareth

Just a couple notes:

Shiffars was nerfed again to 30 crit rating instead of 32.

Sextant of Unstable Currents has the same cooldown as Shiffars(45 seconds).

You can use both and have both proc at the same time and they DO stack but shiffars still has 50 more damage on its proc, lasts the same time but procs 20% versus the sextants 50%.

And in 2.1, Sextant procs 20%, unless they've changed it back.

Gollie · 04/19/07, 1:43 PM

I dont see much talk about the Eye of Magtheridon. I can't tell if it is because not many people have it or because it is terrible. I find it useful only on bosses, but is it better (dps) than other trinkets on mobs 3+ levels above me?

Gollie

Phalanx · 04/19/07, 1:48 PM

I'm 41/20/0 and I always wear the Nexus Horn and the Silver Crescent. They can both be up at the same time, which is when I try to time my PoM/AP/Icon/Pyro macro (I also like to have AB stacked to three if I am trying to dump my mana).

If I didn't have AP/PoM/Pyro, I would probably never use the IotSC. I had planned on upgrading the Nexus Horn to the Currents. I am not Scryer nor a Jewelcrafter, so I don't really have many options to switch out to (never had a Tear, either).

Ezareth · 04/19/07, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Tempestra

And in 2.1, Sextant procs 20%, unless they've changed it back.

Hrmm It seemed to be closer to 50% last night, but due to the cooldown it was hard to tell. I never thought to check to be honest.

Chri · 04/20/07, 1:42 AM

Originally Posted by Gollie

I dont see much talk about the Eye of Magtheridon. I can't tell if it is because not many people have it or because it is terrible. I find it useful only on bosses, but is it better (dps) than other trinkets on mobs 3+ levels above me?

Gollie

The problem with Eye of Magtheridon is once you're hit capped, its pretty nearly useless. I'm sitting at around 13-14% hit in raids, and even now, I usually get maybe 1-2 resists per fight.

Essentially, Eye of Magtheridon gets worse as your gear gets better.