Vontre's Mage DPS Spreadsheet - Page 25

Searix · 12/28/07, 11:12 PM

Couple Q's/weird things:

1) Where's Band of Eternal Sage proc?
2) Why is it that at 159 spell hit t6 level stats 1 damage = .61 spell hit? Is it really THAT good?
3) Does your spreadshoot consider additive effects of multiple abilities? Like icy veins + AP? Veins + Combustion? Popping all your 2 minute timers together every 2 minutes?
4) Where's Drums of Battle? (Maybe not really necessary but i use them)
5) Why are your AB cycles so screwed up? If i put in 200 spell haste it suddenly says my best AB cycle is AB x1 Scorch x4
6) Vampiric Touch doesn't seem to do anything.

Thanks

Sorbe · 12/31/07, 9:15 AM

MINOR BUG -

Going from Major Spellpower to Sunfire should increase DPS, instead it lowers it very slightly for AB(1) and AB(2) spells.

PROBLEM

Sunfire Enchant does not correctly work with the "Calculations" sheet.

Specificly, the formulas in "Calcuations!R47" and "Calculations!S47" reference cells M$10 and N$10 respectively. Both of these should actually be F$10 to pickup the right column amount for Arcane Damage bonus.

You can test this by swapping between "Sunfire" and "Major Spellpower" if you have "AB (1)" and "AB (2)" spells in your "Cycle Builder" sheet.

Searix · 01/03/08, 1:34 AM

Few other bugs/fixes needed:

Without the proper regen, a WE, even in t6 gear, goes out of mana in the last 5-15 seconds. This is not modeled.
Vampiric Touch doesn't seem to do anything

Etherealz · 01/03/08, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Searix

2) Why is it that at 159 spell hit t6 level stats 1 damage = .61 spell hit? Is it really THAT good?

It is that good yes.

kelben · 01/04/08, 5:33 PM

The most recent upload of the file seems to be corrupt.

Dollar · 01/05/08, 3:54 AM

Originally Posted by Tarrke

Heya Vontre,

just was retouching my stuff on your spread sheet and i noticed taht even on your last sheet there still was a place to enter our evocation weapon spirit value. But as evocation is no longer based on spi regeneration but on our total mana pool i've found usefull to use an evocation weapon full of intelligence.

Do you plan on adding such a tip in your calculations ?

Equipping Spi weapons during evoc would still have an effect because of the oo5sr ticks you take. Since the timer starts counting when you actually spend mana, assume you cast:

Fireball-->Evocation-->Fireball

This is what it would look like(Assuming 0 spell haste, no t6 set bonus and 0 latency):

0.00 You begin to cast Fireball.
3.00 Your Fireball is casted (Mana is lost and you enter the 5SR).
3.00 You equip spirit weapons.
4.50 You begin casting Evocation.
8.00 You exit the 5SR.
10.00 You gain mana from being OO5SR. 
12.00 You gain mana from being OO5SR.
12.50 Your Evocation finishes.
12.50 You equip regular weapons.
14.00 You gain mana from being OO5SR.
14.00 You start casting Fireball.
16.00 You gain mana from being OO5SR.
17.00 Your Fireball is casted (Mana is lost and you enter the 5SR rule again.

So yes, equipping spirit weapons still does have an effect on the mana regained from evocation, indirectly. Though I have no idea whether this is modeled in the spreadsheet and I am pretty sure equipping a high intellect weapon (60% of a bigger mana pool is more mana) would grant a larger benefit.

Jesse · 01/07/08, 6:26 AM

This item is missing in the list, while the other cards are present. Is there any particular reason for it not being there (e.g. proc is hard to code)? I am interested in the breakeven point between Wrath and Shiffar's for example.

Dollar · 01/07/08, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jesse

This item is missing in the list, while the other cards are present. Is there any particular reason for it not being there (e.g. proc is hard to code)? I am interested in the breakeven point between Wrath and Shiffar's for example.

From my understanding the Wrath Trinket basically just sucks and you'd be better off with almost any other trinket.

Dochas · 01/07/08, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Jesse

This item is missing in the list, while the other cards are present. Is there any particular reason for it not being there (e.g. proc is hard to code)? I am interested in the breakeven point between Wrath and Shiffar's for example.

Wrath has been generically modelled, I think it was somewhere in the low-mid 20% base crit rate that just about any decent blue trinket beat it.

Vontre · 01/08/08, 12:59 PM

I just uploaded a new version with Icy Veins and such. I didn't have time to get to all the issues posted here, but some of them have been addressed.

Cardynal · 01/08/08, 3:10 PM

One thing you could add in the future is accounting for the Imp Spirit talent from priests giving 10% of your spirit as +dmg. This does increase the value of some items when trying to find the best possible combinations of gear.

I changed the following cell to account for it.

Calculations Tab : B54 =IF($B$50="yes",spelldamage,IF( $B$51 = "yes", Armory!$C$25, 'Main Sheet'!$B$11))+IF($B$78="yes", 'Game Stats'!$E$87, 0) + B53 * 0.1

Also, adding 17 Damage to the Band of the Eternal Sage puts it roughly in line of how much damage the proc adds when spamming fireball from the simulations i've done. This couldn't really be added to the generic spreadsheet, but it's a good modification that people can add when figuring fire dps for themselves.

Tilted · 01/08/08, 3:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dollar

Equipping Spi weapons during evoc would still have an effect because of the oo5sr ticks you take. Since the timer starts counting when you actually spend mana, assume you cast:

Fireball-->Evocation-->Fireball

This is what it would look like(Assuming 0 spell haste, no t6 set bonus and 0 latency):

0.00 You begin to cast Fireball.
3.00 Your Fireball is casted (Mana is lost and you enter the 5SR).
3.00 You equip spirit weapons.
4.50 You begin casting Evocation.
8.00 You exit the 5SR.
10.00 You gain mana from being OO5SR. 
12.00 You gain mana from being OO5SR.
12.50 Your Evocation finishes.
12.50 You equip regular weapons.
14.00 You gain mana from being OO5SR.
14.00 You start casting Fireball.
16.00 You gain mana from being OO5SR.
17.00 Your Fireball is casted (Mana is lost and you enter the 5SR rule again.

So yes, equipping spirit weapons still does have an effect on the mana regained from evocation, indirectly. Though I have no idea whether this is modeled in the spreadsheet and I am pretty sure equipping a high intellect weapon (60% of a bigger mana pool is more mana) would grant a larger benefit.

1 point of spirit adds 0.25 * 1.1 (kings) * 2 (typical # of OO5SR ticks) = 0.55 mana to a full channel of Evocation.

1 point of int adds 15 * 1.1 (kings) * 60% = 9.9 mana to a full channel of Evocation.

So int is roughly 18x more valuable than spirit during Evocation for a typical DPS scenario. I get the feeling it's not worth discussing further.

Stoical · 01/08/08, 9:02 PM

Any idea why the spreadsheet appears to be either undervaluing Hex-Shrunken Head and Skull of Gul'dan, or overvaluing some other trinkets?

From the other TC thread, it seems like those two are viewed as the top fire mage trinkets. However, switching from those two in the spreadsheet to Crusade and TLC, I see a significant dps increase for both fire cycle and straight fireball. Unless this is just another example of actual practice revealing different results than cold numbers.

Vontre · 01/09/08, 2:13 PM

Originally Posted by Stoical

Any idea why the spreadsheet appears to be either undervaluing Hex-Shrunken Head and Skull of Gul'dan, or overvaluing some other trinkets?

From the other TC thread, it seems like those two are viewed as the top fire mage trinkets. However, switching from those two in the spreadsheet to Crusade and TLC, I see a significant dps increase for both fire cycle and straight fireball. Unless this is just another example of actual practice revealing different results than cold numbers.

If you're using the switches on the front page, those are only for the effects. They do not include trinket stats.

Vontre · 01/09/08, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cardynal

One thing you could add in the future is accounting for the Imp Spirit talent from priests giving 10% of your spirit as +dmg. This does increase the value of some items when trying to find the best possible combinations of gear.

This is already in the spreadsheet, you do not need to add it yourself. See 'Game Stats'!$E$15 and 'Calculations'$F$47