Vontre's Mage DPS Spreadsheet - Page 7

Vontre · 05/28/07, 7:40 PM

I updated the consumables a while ago, but Kalman handles the gear. I might update it if I have time.

Copernicus · 05/29/07, 12:30 AM

So using the spreadsheet generator from Item database project (for all these spreadsheets) and this spreadsheet, I made a quick item comparison spreadsheet for a 10/48/3 spec. It's updated for post 2.10 values but doesn't have a lot of the new post 2.10 items, like the majority of Tier 6 stuff. I included set bonuses for Spellstrike and Spellfire, but not Tier 4 and Tier 5.

The stat values I used were...

1 dmg = 1 DEP
3.5 int = 1 dmg
7 spirit = 1 dmg
2 stam = 1 dmg
1.5 crit rating = 1 dmg
0.9 hit rating = 1 dmg
1 socket = 9 dmg
1 meta-socket = 12 dmg
Spellfire Set = 11.66 dmg/slot
Spellstrike Set = 7 dmg/slot

http://www.ainur-guild.org/stuff/magegeardps.htm

This is the first spreadsheet I've ever really made for public use, so advice and error-correction would be helpful.

I also have no idea what to value stamina at, with 2 stamina/dmg being a complete guess. Stamina is valuable on a lot of TBC fights with random damage, but it's very easy to overvalue it.

Xei · 05/29/07, 4:24 AM

You cannot really 'value' stamina as its needed in some fights but totally irrelevant in others. As such I normally collect some gear that has slightly less dmg or crit but a good stack more stamina for such fights as Tidewalker where I am likely to take a decent amount of damage - then switch out for pure dmg gear for something like Fathom-Lord.

Jayde · 05/29/07, 4:33 AM

I'd personally make a seperate "stamina gear" section that ranked Stamina higher. Would be better as people usually have different sets for different fights.

I'd say Stamina is nearly trivial or a non-issue for the majority of fights, so I would rank it rather low (or even 0 it out completely) for general-purpose DPS gear. For instance, on your sheet the Bloodmaw Magus-Blade gets lower DEP than the Nathrezim Mindblade, however for the majority of fights the Bloodmaw Magus-Blade is a superior item--albeit only very, very slightly.

Likewise, the new stats on Ring of Recurrence are downplayed a bit due to the low stam on the item.

Copernicus · 05/29/07, 10:40 PM

Stamina valued at zero version - http://www.ainur-guild.org/stuff/magegeardpszero.htm

Stamina valued at 2 stamina/dmg version - http://www.ainur-guild.org/stuff/magegeardps.htm

I made a mistake with my initial values of int and spirit, counting spellfire as being always on for the purposes of intellect and overvaluing spirit on my initial valuing.

My values were-

Crit = 1.5/dmg
Hit = 0.9/dmg
Stamina = 2/dmg or zero
Intellect = 5/dmg
Spirit = 9/dmg
Socket = 9 dmg
Meta socket = 12 dmg

If anyone wants to mess around with their own values, here's a zip file of the two spreadsheets - http://www.ainur-guild.org/stuff/magedps.zip
Just change the numbers in the constants, this is still a very simple spreadsheet.

I also added in the recent items from wowhead, but I have no idea how to value spellhaste on a few of the new items and I didn't include them because of that.

Jugalub · 05/30/07, 12:56 PM

Just another query about the consumables on your spreadsheet Vontre. Under Options I am guessing that DPS consumables is Superior Wizard Oil, and a Blackened Basilisk type food? and Flask is pretty self explanatory. Unstable Mana Pots again is self explanatory but is there a way to use Super Mana instead or even Fel Mana? Under Miscellaneous i can toggle Mana Regen Consumables. Is this mana gems or a Mageblood potion and mana regen food? If not are Mana Gems built into the spreadsheet anyway?

Vontre · 05/30/07, 12:58 PM

Mana gems are in the spreadsheet anyway.

All the consumable values are stored under the Game Information tab, if you want to mess with it. I'm pretty sure the mana gem consumables were mageblood potion and food though i may have removed them from the calculation due to being outdated.

Jugalub · 05/30/07, 1:33 PM

Thanks for the clarification.

alvinrod · 06/01/07, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by Vontre

I updated the consumables a while ago, but Kalman handles the gear. I might update it if I have time.

Any idea of when he might have that finished?

Zyrexana · 06/01/07, 5:58 PM

Anyone that can help a warlock trying to figure out how a mage is played?

Alright, so I've broken out this spreadsheet, have the values entered for talents, and basic stats in the Main Sheet, including evocate weapons and such, and it gave me a bunch of delightful numbers that I don't quite understand. I would love any help and clarification.

Under the Spells tab in the Main Sheet, when it lists a spell, such as Fireball, is that just saying "If you chain this spell in the circumstances you provided, you would do this dps for this long before you're mana is dry"? Or is it considering it as part of a rotation, or what?

My issue here is a bizarre one. In my guild, we have a few mages who, it appears from preliminary research, aren't coming up to par; so naturally, now I have to theorycraft a way for them to pwn before they believe me that they can do better than like 620 dps on Mag. =P I am normally a warlock, so mages are a relatively new field for. So, any help is appreciated.

So clarification on that would help (for the numbers I'm seeing in the sheet), and does anyone have a recommended spell rotation to try in this sheet, for a couple of the better specs? Like 10/48/3? And how would this rotation reflect in the spreadsheet? Similar to the front tab (you can do this maxed out for this long before oom, or?)

Sorry for being a pain, and thanks for the help in advance!

manly · 06/01/07, 6:23 PM

Im sorry, but you can't use theorycrafted numbers and expect the same results from actual testing. Spell rotations are good to give you a good idea what to expect, but given the bosses in BC you will never get to 'play by the book' and follow precisely those numbers. The closest fight where i could maintain a perfect uninterrupted spell rotation would be void-reaver *if* you manage to never need to move at all, which is unlikely to happen given that your totems are likely to move.

If you want to give yourself a benchmark to compare against, check WWS parses. Those will take into account the things dps spreadsheets cannot.

The short short version: Make sure the scorch debuff stays up. Otherwise fireball. Stay in range of totems. Try to pop cooldowns when it makes the most sense (ie: combustion at 20%-, icon of silver crescent during bloodlust).

Vontre · 06/01/07, 6:27 PM

Yeah it's just for spamming one spell. Generally with the exception of arcane specs (which can only really be handled by expert mages in the first place) a mage's optimal casting cycle is one-button spam.

The best way to confront your problem would be to link us to the armory profiles there and I'm sure the posters here will pick up any obvious problems rather quickly =).

10/48/3 is a great raiding build, the spell cycle would be fireball spam with the occasional scorch to maintain the debuff.

Zyrexana · 06/02/07, 1:49 AM

Originally Posted by manly

Im sorry, but you can't use theorycrafted numbers and expect the same results from actual testing. Spell rotations are good to give you a good idea what to expect, but given the bosses in BC you will never get to 'play by the book' and follow precisely those numbers. ...etc

I'm not new to the game or theorycrafting, you know, or even caster classes. I'm new to mages. I want to use the spreadsheet to project information to give me an idea of how numbers in general can look like and stuff... I never suggested they'd directly translate...

I simply requested a translation of what the chart meant when it said this or that, and extra help if anyone is willing to give it. And... Thanks a bunch, Vontre. =)

Well, two of our main mages include...

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#c...rgeras&n=Drink

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#c...argeras&n=Bhal

I'm going to play a mage a while if that's what it takes, I'm serious. =x

Tempestra · 06/02/07, 4:28 PM

As Manly said, checking out WWS parses (or better yet, give us their 620 dps mag parse) would be the best way to see how mages handle each fight.

Don't use, or tell your mages to use, any rotation except 1 scorch 6-7 fireball. That's how mages are now, for better or worse, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise (I'm assuming you're spec'ing for 25-man raids).

As for Drink - why in god's green earth does (s)he not use spellfire vest but has the other two pieces on? Also, +8 int gem in the shoulders... really?

As for Bhal - his gear is fantastic for pre-ssc non-tailoring. No excuse not to do well.

Zyrexana · 06/02/07, 7:28 PM

Hmm, I'll see what I can do about Drink with spellfire, but Bhal's dps is now lately showing some significant improvements, thankfully (the spec is new for him, he was some hybrid mid-arcane mid-fire scorch spec before).

http://wow.virakar.com/stats/wws-20070529-2044/

This is a parse of Magtheridon where Drink's dps was 628, fairly recent.

Besides that, is that truly the end-all be-all spec? Are there any viable frost specs available? Several of our mages keep experimenting with pve frost. Any thoughts on that?

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#c...rgeras&n=Carea This guy is trying to make pve frost work.

And any thoughts on deep-arcane fire?

(Again, thanks a MILLION for all your help, thoughts, and input.

I really appreciate it.)