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04/12/07, 11:39 AM
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#16
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Great Tiger
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Paladin Holy DPS worksheet for SoR, SoV, and Holy Shock
It looks to me like a holy shock paladin should be able to hit around 486 DPS using SoR, JoR, and Holy Shock, or 437 DPS with SoV, JoV, and Holy Shock. I didn't work out numbers for combining the two, because that's in a class with working out hunter shot cycles, a lot depends on how well you can actually execute on switching between SoR and SoV.
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Something I would suggest for your SoR section is to convert everything to DPS. (instead of damage per proc) You can calculate the base DPS of SoR by equipping a weapon, looking at the damage range for SoR, and dividing the range by your weapon speed. The higher number is the base DPS for a 2H, the lower number is the base DPS for a 1H. To figure out the contribution of +dmg to SoR DPS, just use the DPS coefficients - ~9% for 1h, 10.8% for 2h - since weapon speed doesn't matter, including it in the calculations only makes things more confusing.
Originally Posted by Drekor
You pretty much got it, +damage is king. There are 2h weapons with +damage on them and it's important to evaluate the overall DPS provided from white damage as well as the added damage gained on your holy damage from the +damage on the weapon, as well as the melee mitigation of your target. In the end... you want both, if you run out of mana using a 41 DPS caster weapon is no damn good to you.
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Don't forget the higher base damage and slightly higher SoR scaling with a 2h weapon.
Using my max +dmg gear (around 450~500 +dmg, 257 JotC), my 1h SoR adds around 100 DPS. Each SoR proc is around 270 damage on my LC exalted 1h, and the weapon has a 2.7 AS.
In the same gear, swapping in the LC exalted polearm (which has 0 +dmg), I would get about 10~20 more SoR DPS than with the +dmg 1h weapon. (Though it helps I have 2H specialization) The trade-off is that you lose some JoR damage, since no 2h that we can use has as much +dmg as a 1h weapon.
One last note on mana efficiency: Paladin DPS can be as mana efficient as you want it. SoR lasts for 30 seconds. It costs 260 mana, and adds 100~ DPS. If you run the seal for 29 seconds.. you get 2900 damage done at 10 DPM. (And throw in a 600~700 judgement for 140-ish mana) If you let spirit tick a few times, throw in BoW - you recover the mana used for the seal. Yes, that eats into your total DPS ... but opportunity cost of mana is removed. (Compare that to a Druid or Priest healer trying to throw a Moonfire or Smite in between heals. It costs valuable healing mana, puts them into the 5SR for little damage done, and is thus "unsustainable". The priest equivalent of wanding wouldn't add as much damage)
Last edited by Fiola : 04/12/07 at 11:48 AM.
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04/12/07, 11:45 AM
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#17
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I prefer the term treasure hunting
Orc Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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In the same gear, swapping in the LC exalted polearm (which has 0 +dmg), I would get about 10~20 more SoR DPS than with the +dmg 1h weapon. (Though it helps I have 2H specialization) The trade-off is that you lose some JoR damage, since no 2h that we can use has as much +dmg as a 1h weapon.
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Still waiting for my 300 +dmg two handed axe to use for DPSing. I can't believe there's no item like this, but there's Feral AP gear sucking up drop slots on bosses in almost every zone.
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04/12/07, 11:59 AM
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#18
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle
Still waiting for my 300 +dmg two handed axe to use for DPSing. I can't believe there's no item like this, but there's Feral AP gear sucking up drop slots on bosses in almost every zone.
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Let's see who that would be useful for...
Hunters? Nope, all AP based now.
Shaman? An elemental shammy would have to go down enhancement to use it; whereas an enhancement shammy focuses on physical stats, generally (AP/crit).
Warriors? Lawl.
Paladins? It's alright for SoR-purposes, I guess. (Trade 50~ weapon DPS for 300 +dmg? Seems high when looking at the staff equivalents.) SoC does make use of the weapon DPS though, and the trade doesn't seem to give much of an advantage compared to existing itemization, using what's already out there.
Create a weapon drop that is useful for half a class? Not seeing it.
I imagine Blizzard thinks you should be looking for the 2h weapons with +dmg tacked on. Blessed Hammer of the Naaru, the various blue instance drops...
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04/12/07, 12:13 PM
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#19
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I prefer the term treasure hunting
Orc Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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Shaman? An elemental shammy would have to go down enhancement to use it; whereas an enhancement shammy focuses on physical stats, generally (AP/crit).
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0/11/50 is a pretty solid healing spec that still lets you swing a big stick for a passing semblance of farming ability and autoattack DPS. Over-reliance on melee stats for a deep Enhancement build is a result of the other weapon buffs sucking horribly in comparison to Windfury, if they became worth a crap such a weapon would be useful (not that I expect this to ever happen).
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Create a weapon drop that is useful for half a class? Not seeing it.
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http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filt...97;crs=1;crv=0
Cough.
It's more effective for me to DPS/off-heal as holy spec with a Greatsword of Horrid Dreams and a shield than a comparable-ilvl 90 DPS weapon like the Plasma Rat Scythe simply because so much of my damage comes from spell power, to say nothing of what using a pure DPS weapon does for my pinch healing ability. Any 2h weapon with high weapon DPS and token amounts of +dmg is a complete joke and is useful to no one since a full melee stat loaded weapon is more total DPS class for a real melee class, and it's not enough to matter for a hybrid. I don't see why we can't have a mace or axe at the other end of the spectrum with a bundle of +dmg for a few more white damage DPS over a one-handed weapon/shield with roughly the same stats.
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04/12/07, 12:22 PM
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#20
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle
0/11/50 is a pretty solid healing spec that still lets you swing a big stick for a passing semblance of farming ability and autoattack DPS. Over-reliance on melee stats for a deep Enhancement build is a result of the other weapon buffs sucking horribly in comparison to Windfury, if they became worth a crap such a weapon would be useful (not that I expect this to ever happen).
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And said shaman can use staves? (Which actually end up with about as much +dmg as 1h weapons, but with more stats)
http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filt...97;crs=1;crv=0
Cough.
It's more effective for me to DPS/off-heal as holy spec with a Greatsword of Horrid Dreams and a shield than a comparable-ilvl 90 DPS weapon like the Plasma Rat Scythe simply because so much of my damage comes from spell power, to say nothing of what using a pure DPS weapon does for my pinch healing ability. Any 2h weapon with high weapon DPS and token amounts of +dmg is a complete joke and is useful to no one since a full melee stat loaded weapon is more total DPS class for a real melee class, and it's not enough to matter for a hybrid. I don't see why we can't have a mace or axe at the other end of the spectrum with a bundle of +dmg for a few more white damage DPS over a one-handed weapon/shield with roughly the same stats.
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Right, you have an alternative with the 1h/shield. (And the weapon DPS gain going from 1h/shield to a +dmg 2h would be around 20 - mitigated by armor. +dmg gain would probably be small or nothing, if stave/dagger itemization is an indication of how Blizz wants things)
Take away weapons with FAP, and what do druids get to use? Nothing.
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04/12/07, 12:29 PM
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#21
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This could be anything
Symbul.6982
Blood Elf Paladin
No WoW Account (EU)
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Still waiting for my 300 +dmg two handed axe to use for DPSing. I can't believe there's no item like this, but there's Feral AP gear sucking up drop slots on bosses in almost every zone.
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In other words you want to be able to use Staves.
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04/12/07, 12:35 PM
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#22
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Lightninghoof
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Originally Posted by Symbul
In other words you want to be able to use Staves.
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bah. commoner weapons.
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04/12/07, 12:50 PM
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#23
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Soda Popinski
No active account.
Orc Death Knight
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Thelyna
On a random semi-related note, I'm currently ret spec (12/0/49) with warrior gear (str/ap/crit) for soloing/easy instances and happy enough with how it works out (although my shadow priest alt makes my paladin look silly, but that's another story). My question then is:
1: how effective is +dmg gear for raw damage done? (I realise overall utility of a holy-damage paladin is far higher than that of a warriordin with 4k of blue rage, but my actual damage done is low enough as is.)
2: what stats do I look for for really good holy damage gear?
3: 2H or sword/board? I guess this one comes down to holy/ret or pure holy, since with SoC slower is better and with SoR +dmg is king?
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For ret or for holy dps? With ret and a SoC/JoC/CS cycle it works out to ~70 AP = 50 spell damage. But if you look at the basic vendor gems, you can get 4 str gems, and 5 spell damage gems, or like 8.8 w/ str talent vs 5 spell damage. Itemization favors AP > spell damage.
For holy, spell damage is the biggest stat, as it scales extremely big with L1 consecration. With 10 second judgment, physical crit is the next biggest stat; assumes you're using a 2h. I'm getting numbers in around 9.4 spell = 22 crit rating, 1 spell damage = 4.4 ap, 1 physical crit rating = 2.2 spell crit rating. Till my farming alt gets up there, holy farming for me  . For sustained farming, rank 1 consecration and SoR/JoR looping with blessing of wisdom, use free crit to heal up to full with a gear swap.
Last edited by Zraknul : 04/12/07 at 1:06 PM.
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04/12/07, 4:40 PM
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#24
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Stormrage
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I updated the spreadsheet based on Fiola's suggestion that I show the numbers as DPS, rather than as damage-per-hit. This looks a lot more readable!
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...YUsFx7Ka2stABw
I threw in a libram, since I recalled the Libram of Zeal will add 47 to the spell damage of JoCrusader... I'm not sure if this gets multiplied by Improved SoCr, but I decided to assume that it was.
Not sure why, but in this calculation SoV fell behind SoR again.
As for 'why, God, why are you rolling a holy-specced paladin for DPS', it's kind of like tinkering with an old VW engine, I'm curious to see how much mileage I can get out of a build that really isn't, under normal circumstances, intended to do heavy DPS.
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upstart feline miscreant (32 feral/9 resto)
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04/12/07, 6:24 PM
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#25
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Great Tiger
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I think your original spreadsheet didn't include base JoR damage in the JoR calulation, which made it look worse than JoV when it should have been on par. (SoR matches SoV around 1k~ +dmg)
How are you considering the effects of spell crit? Spells crit for 150% damage, while I think your spreadsheet treats them as 200% damage crits (it seems to assume 1% crit => 1% more damage, when it's 0.5% more damage)
Consecrate's coefficient is around 95%, but you seem to be using a lower value.
Aside from that, the spreadsheet's math looks good, though it's a *little* hard to read. (Different number of significant figures in each cell, coefficients are not clearly labeled - should have seperately labeled "Per proc/cast" and "DPS" coefficients, IMO)
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04/12/07, 6:42 PM
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#26
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Stormrage
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Good point. I'm used to melee crits that double your damage. I've reduced the DPS increase from crits accordingly.
I've also changed the formatting to be rounded to 2 decimal places.
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upstart feline miscreant (32 feral/9 resto)
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04/13/07, 7:45 PM
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#27
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Stormrage
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Updated spreadsheet, changed Improved SoR to multiply the whole damage since that will be fixed in 2.10, changed Consecrate to max rank since word is that Consecrate will now scale spell damage. Also added DPS numbers to account for missing spells against higher level enemies.
Does not include any provision for having spell hit to negate that at the moment, since I'm more interested in 'maximum possible DPS'.
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upstart feline miscreant (32 feral/9 resto)
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