Miraanda

Has there been a spreadsheet developed yet, or in development similar to the fury warrior sheet? i know one also exists for rogues, was trying to do a search, but its disabled for some reason, any help is appreciated, thanks.

 

Skiace

i made one that i tried to keep up to date throughout TBC beta, but i haven't really touched it in a couple months. It had a lot of stuff in it, but was pretty unfriendly to new users, and i didn't have any of the fancy itemization stuff in it that the warrior and rogue sheets have. additionally, i never tried to model the 3-second windfury cooldown. i suspect it would be difficult to do accurately.

i can't even give you a link to the last version i made, since it was on my laptop which has since died and i have not yet recovered the hard drive.

 

Miraanda

Hmm, im just looking for an idea of what shaman enhance dps does compared to other pure dps classes, does anyone have any way of finding that info? as far as real numbers go.

 

Nite_Moogle

sw-stats.com

Skiace is right, I don't think anyone's actually finished a shaman spreadsheet due to the complexity and massive variance in damage due to Windfury. You need incredibly large sample sizes of actual data to get information close to what a prediction sheet will give you anyway; I wrote a program a few months ago that mimicked a Shaman meleeing quite accurately and ran it for what would be well over a year of constant melee and was still a few tenths of a percent off on my Windfury proc rate.

You should expect numbers fairly similar to a fury warrior [which means it varies wildly depending on gear], probably slightly less due to shamans having a lower threat cap.

 

sabashra

I put something together recently. It's far from perfect or complete but it gives some reasonable estimates of enhancement shaman DPS with various gear and buff options.

http://www.savefile.com/files/633759

 

• Binkenstein

I'm thinking about doing something like that in the future, but it's a little complex to model I think.

I'm more familiar with spell damage mechanics.

 

• Disquette

would you be willing to repost a link to the code?

 

Hellcry

Just started raiding this week and my gear is pure crap. Threath is what limits me on most fights. On Fights where that is not an issue (like mag) I do really good fully potted With BoM and battleshout.

Ill try to get some hard numbers, maybe with booth wf5/4 and wf 5/5 the next week.

 

• Disquette

Since I havent had a response yet, I'm working on my own enhance modeling script right now, and it's written in visual basic scripting so that anyone can open it as a text file and input data that's relevant to them (AP, rank of WeapMastery, Armor Mitigation, Offhand Enchant, etc).

Current hold ups are reporting format and how glancing blows will be working in the near future. I'm pretty happy with the way I'm modeling flurry (harder than i thought at first!) and WF.

 

Malan

Maybe I just run with a really good warrior, but there are only a few fights where I find threat to be my limitation and I'll finish in the top 3-4 DPS depending on how much moving or touch up healing I have to do. I've felt threat limited on Prince before, but only on days that we had no paly in the raid.

 

• Disquette

My Script is done, and the real shocking result is that WF's proc rate is MUCH MUCH higher than 20%.

At first I was wondering why my modeling script kept under reporting WF compared to ingame tests. After a while, I figured I'd look at the combat logs (thousands of hits on mobs in blasted lands, I've had a mind numbing couple of days). Here's the result of a standard CombatLog parse (i've done several, and each shows the same thing):



This has been consistent, and I've been tearing my hair out trying to figure out what was wrong with my model. It turns out nothing was. For instance, lookie here, when I put a 34% proc rate for WF into my modeling script....



The relative WF to White Dmg is correct (within 1%), and in my ingame tests (1205 seconds, 1160 white swings) my dps was 380.2, compared to the 376 (again, 1%) predicted by the model. I think my model is right. I also think that the "20% to proc on hit" is really really wrong.

Either WF is saving charges, or the rate is actually higher, or it's influenced by flurry, or... or...

 

• Chicken

Or as it has a hidden cooldown it's proc rate is actually higher than it says it is? That would be consistent with a number of trinkets and enchants.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

• Disquette

Yeah, I'm thinking that's the most likely, but that the proc rate is determined by your weapon speeds in order to get it close to the 20% "as advertised" in the tool tip. Note how in the SS of the simulation run the Actual WF proc rate over all white hits (the last line) is indeed ".2" = 20% for those two weapons. I used the same weapons in the modeling script that I used for the in-game tests.

If someone else wants to see if the proc rate varies by weapon speed to back into the 20%, that's cool, but I think I'm done for now. too much testing.

PS - can you link a discussion on the trinkets you were talking about, I'd be really interested in reading those mechanics.

 

Galanna

Or the proc% may depend on opponent level.

 

• Chicken

I think I was remembering wrongly on the trinkets (I can't find a thread about it at least), the closest I could find was some discussion on Spellsurge here. There's a few discussions about trinkets and their hidden cooldowns in the varying 'What is the best trinket for my role?' threads, but it's not as interesting since there's no trinkets out there with hidden cooldowns that mention their proc rate, which makes it a bad comparison to this discovery about Windfury.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Nite_Moogle

This. Unfortunately the mobs in the blasted lands aren't realistic test mobs anymore.

The trinket with the long hidden cooldown you're thinking of is this http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28418

 

• Disquette

Hopefully i dont get speared for this, but i did some reading this AM in the bliz forums (both EU and US), and there's actually a *lot* of tests showing that the proc rate is some how being buffed up so that the observed proc/hit is close to 20%. One person hypothesized 35% based on some theorycrafting. Another person hypothesized 36% based on some math. I think my 34% observed fit in pretty well with them. The main thing of note is that everyone's getting results of 15 to 19% observed WF proc rate on mobs, even the tests done on lvl 65+ mobs. Observed 15%+ rates DWing shouldnt be happening unless the chance to proc is greater 20%.

Not to say that proc% isn't affected by mob level, but based on the other testing I've read, I'm less inclined to believe this at the moment for Windfury.

Also, is there precedent that enchant procs are more likely based on opponent level? I dont remember my poisons as a rogue varying their proc rate depending on mob level, but then again, I never really looked hard at that as a possibility.

 

Nite_Moogle

Re-run your parse for actual proc rate instead of eliminating the time in which WF is on cooldown. If the 'real' proc rate is around 35% but the net proc rate is 20% I'll be far less irritated by this change.

My copied shaman is only level 62 so he might make a good tester on the BL mobs without level difference skewing things too much.

edit: http://www.noobschoolbus.com/wow/wftester.cs for that WF tester program, sorry, I had missed that previous post.

 

• Disquette

Not sure that i understand what you mean by:
Re-run your parse for actual proc rate instead of eliminating the time in which WF is on cooldown. If the 'real' proc rate is around 35% but the net proc rate is 20% I'll be far less irritated by this change.

Perhaps knowing the following will answer your question:
Data:
Windfury Procs: 212
Hits outside the 3 second rule: 619
Hits inside the 3 second rule: 543
so, the sum of those = 1162 total white hits/crits

Calculations:
Windfury Procs Per Hits Oustide 3 sec rule: 34%
Windfury Procs Per Total Hits: 212 / 1162 = 18.2%

 

• Daler

Indeed. That would be quite a development. Please let us know how the tests come out.