Paladin healing in 2.1, theorycraft - Page 14

goss · 05/14/07, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mearis

BoP is infinitely more useful than a shield, since it is the one thing that might actually save a caster pulling aggro. I'd trade shield for BoP in an instant.

As I've said before, comparing BoP and PW:S is really apples and oranges. There are limitations to both that certainly constrict their usefulness, but each has its own applicability. You can't BoP a tank, it won't always save a cloth wearer if there is any magical damage floating around, whereas PW:S might. PW:S has a less drastic affect, but has a very short cooldown to match, and much broader uses - and thats fine.

Deris · 05/14/07, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mearis

I cannot think of any plauslbe situation where a priest is superior to a paladin for healing a single target taking damage - which while it might be a niche ability, is a niche that covers 95% of raiding. Prot tanks 'niche' is tanking hard hitting melee mobs that require a lot of threat output - sure, that's a niche, but it is a hell of a large niche.

Edit:
BoP is infinitely more useful than a shield, since it is the one thing that might actually save a caster pulling aggro. I'd trade shield for BoP in an instant.

Don't forget to neglect the amount of MP5 Priests are sitting at now a days, along with their levels of spirit and regen inside of the FSR due to set bonuses and/or meditation. Priests have two avenues for regen, Paladins have one.

Also I fear you neglect to mention the huge benefits of inspriation for single target healing, along with Renew. Granted inspiration doesn't work for every fight (Astromancer, Hydross, Demon phase Leothras) it still is a very good talent that no Priest should pass up if they consider raiding in any capacity.

Shield and PW:S have two entirely different roles, PW:S is still the best "oh crap" button for everything, including the main tank. BoP is a good oh crap button, but dodgy for use on the MT - I can only think of a handful of situations where another Paladin in my guild or myself have used it on the MT in the past on purpose. (Removing Sunder stacks during earthquakes on Doomwalker for one.)

BoP is still limited in application - whereas PW:S isn't, also PW:S can *never* overheal, granted it can't crit but it is still a very good ability that is never marginalized by other healers since it is a unique ability that no other class can reproduce. Sure I can toss out a holy shock kind of like PW:S as a retroactive ability, but this is where PW:S shines in that you can use it pre-emptively before a big nuke or strike.

I personally have shifted away from Holy Light as my main heal, and as I said earlier it took me a few raids to adjust and regear, but I've made the shift already so 2.1 will come and go, and I won't even notice a thing. I don't mind this, we needed the nerf, but christ we are *very* one dimensional and *very* boring post 2.1 - that is my only real gripe. Itemization will never be good enough so there is no reason to complain about that. I just want more compelling gameplay for the Paladin class

Psykal · 05/14/07, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Deris

Dumb question but can the mana gain effect crit? I don't think i've seen anyone with this meta ever so I don't have a reference to ask :>

I had this metagem for a while and never noticed it restore anything other than 300 mana, so I'm fairly confident it can't crit.

Panch · 05/14/07, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Deris

I personally have shifted away from Holy Light as my main heal, and as I said earlier it took me a few raids to adjust and regear, but I've made the shift already so 2.1 will come and go, and I won't even notice a thing. I don't mind this, we needed the nerf, but christ we are *very* one dimensional and *very* boring post 2.1 - that is my only real gripe. Itemization will never be good enough so there is no reason to complain about that. I just want more compelling gameplay for the Paladin class

I completely agree with most of the things you are saying, but I'm a bit confused with this issue. I see it appear very often in complaints regarding 2.1, but perhaps I'm missing something. I've always itemized my gear to be balanced. I was never a huge proponent of stacking spell crit, although I agree it was obviously powerful. In retrospect, I'm one of the lucky ones who missed the boat, as now I don't have to completely reitemize; perhaps a few gems, but nothing significant.

So what confuses me is the contention that we are NOW one-dimensional, whereas before the nerf we were not. Like I stated, I was not a crit pally, so I may not understand the playstyle, but it seems like pre-nerf we would be far more one-dimensional than post-nerf. Holy Light spamming seems far more boring than having to differentiate between Flash of Light, Holy Light, adjusting ranks, etc.... In it's most simple form, isn't 2 button spamming more interesting than single button spamming?

Deris · 05/14/07, 2:35 PM

Well before we could blindly toss Max Rank HL's on everything and everyone and achieve insane levels of healing with 7-8k crits (10k+ on locks!) left and right. To me big numbers are cool, but I have ADD and am considered largely to be retarded by guildmates, so ymmv.

levk · 05/14/07, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

I have never seen mana pots crit including VT mana gains. However health pots, healthstones, the 3/3 FSW set (this is being changed) and similar healing effects will crit according to your spell crit rate.

That meta is likely the best Pally PvE meta, and the Destro Diamand (14 spell crit and 1% spell reflect) is likely the best Pally PvP meta.

A very long time ago when I used ctra it came with some simple DPS recap kind of tool and I remember seeing mana pot crits captured. I haven't used ctra or any other recap tools since way before 2.0 though so they might've changed it.

I currently don't have enough sockets to activate insightful, so I've been using mystical. I'll be getting insightful first order of business when 2.1 goes live, but I have to admit I've been underestimating mystical.

For pvp 18 stam meta is unmatched.

Knightblade87 · 05/16/07, 6:55 PM

i don't know where to put this but here we go.

I'm looking for a macro to judge a target's targets. and i also want to cast the spell and judge with the same button.

seul · 05/16/07, 7:55 PM

Originally Posted by Knightblade87

i don't know where to put this but here we go.

I'm looking for a macro to judge a target's targets. and i also want to cast the spell and judge with the same button.

The results of feeding the words "paladin judgement macro" into Google are really amazing:

http://theholylight.wordpress.com/20...aladin-macros/
http://www.wowwiki.com/Useful_macros/Paladin
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...52936156&sid=1