It's really cool with these values and that Lootzor.com is pretty cool. The problem is just that you can't really use it for picking up gear (as you did with the lootzor.com link).

The first goal as a paladin (gearwise) is to get around 1600 healing, so your FoL (Rank 7) will hit for around 1300 as base (so you'll actually be able to heal the raid up in time). When you have the 1600 healing sorted, then you can start judging and maybe replace some of your gems/armor-pieces with the value-template above.

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I've recently downloaded Pawn, basically a mod that lets you assign values to stats, a la lootzor.

I'm trying to figure out a good scale to assign to stats and sockets. At the moment, I'm looking at:

(Pawn: v1: "Healpoints": Intellect=1.4, Stamina=1.2 RedSocket=17, BlueSocket=17, YellowSocket=14, MetaSocket=46, SpellCritRating=1.8, Mana=0.02, SpellPower=1, Mp5=5, Healing=1)

At the moment I'm trying to shift my gear preference further towards output rather than regeneration, hence my perhaps low value given to mana5. I don't mind chain chugging Super Mana potions, and thus far in most fights I'm finding I have mana left over at the end of the fight, even on lenghty battles like Magtheridon, and I want to increase my healing output. I switched from the Insightful Earthstorm Diamond to my current Mystical Skyfire, and swapped out the Aran +40int/regen trinket for the Scarab of the Infinite Cycle.

I've also included Stamina in the scale because I like my gear to be well-rounded and the vast majority of fights include some environmental damage.

Can anyone offer any feedback on the weighting I've assigned my stats? At the moment it's a bit haphazard with only a little maths behind it; going more on gut feeling. The problem with healing is it's not as simple as damage; you need to deal with spikes, take breaks when nothing's happening, etc etc, hence my attempts to focus on the amount I can output within any given timeframe.

I have a question which relates to the topic of relative values of mp5, intellect, etc. After the illumination nerf, have other Paladins also found that many of the “upgrades” turned out to not really be upgrades. The critical healing took a 40% nerf, however it seems that a majority of the itemization was not taken into account.

For example:
Triptych Shield of the Ancients - Items - World of Warcraft (Triptych Shield of the Ancients) vs. Bastion of Light - Items - World of Warcraft (Bastion of Light)
The first shield is from Karazhan while the second is from the second boss in Hyjal. The Hyjal shield is apparently 26 ilvl higher than the Karazhan. However regardless of how I would socket it, I don’t feel like I am getting a big upgrade at all, perhaps even a downgrade healing wise. The spellcrit gained doesn’t even come close to the mp5 I lose even if I factor in the extra intellect and healing.

Similarly:
Justicar Tier 4 shoulders vs. Crystalforge tier 5 shoulders. Again loss of 5 mp5 as well as small amount of int for a minor +healing gain and spellcrit. I am currently not planning on getting tier 5 shoulders because I would personally consider it a downgrade.

I am sure there are other examples but does anyone else agree that perhaps a re-evaluation of itemization might be needed in regards to spell crit vs. mp5?

I agree for the most part ...

If you look at healing for a 600 second boss fight. SSC non tier items always seem to come out as a downgrade.

I would like to hear from BT and Hijal pallies who can compare the T5 items and spell crit stuff to the Mp5 etc...

It's not that we do not value spellcrit but the issue is rather that sometimes the mp5 is better. I can understand your ability to spam max rank with +critical gems however the math just doesn't add up. If you take the gems you have that are dedicated to +critical and replace them with + mp5 you should theoretically be able to heal more because math would show that in the end the mp5 gives you more mana. Some of the posts above show relative values of all the healing related variables.

Don't forget that despite the nerf to Illumination, crit heals are still 50% bigger. Overhealing yeah yeah, how many times has your tank died because you ran out of mana? How many times has your tank died because the heal you landed in the middle of a parry crushing chain wasn't big enough? Functionally, spell crit works a little bit like straight +healing.

I agree on the fact that crit heal does heal for more and perhaps we can take that into account and count its +healing equivalent 1.5 times more. The main issue i have is that still there are certain cases where things just don't add up. For example a few posts above i listed two shields, the "upgrade" causes one to lose a massive amount of mp5 with a gain of some + healing and some int/sta. For a 26 ilvl jump it does not seem that good of an upgrade. Comparing it to the other healing shield that drops with critical strike rating in BT, i don't know if losing 8 mp5 is worth the 21 crit rating. I am currently not in BT so anyone who is, i could really use your opinions! And thank you for the ones who have already stated theirs.

Bastion of Light with an 11heal, 2 mp5 gem is very nice, you only end up losing 5 mp5 overall but gain alot of healing and stats. Felstone Bulwark is the one I use and prefer though simply because my main heal in BT is Holy Light (rank 7 or 11) and forgetting the theorycrafting completely I much prefer the extra crit, and like Spades said that also means bigger heals as well.

Personally I would use both shields over the Karazhan one, if you prefer mp5 go for the Bastion of Light, if you like your crit go for Felstone Bulwark.

I currently have 1879 + heal // 20.73% crit // 179 mp5s (ooc) unbuffed. I find that with a max rank FoL I am able to use this as my main heal without dropping below 45% mana on a 8-10 min fight (like VR). I have an excellent healing team in my guild and find that when we are all working together and staggering our heals, nobody really needs to live in bigger heals. I am wondering if this is a factor in any of these calculations.


I currently am using Demonic Bulwark of the Physician, replacing my Triptych Shield of the Ancients, and am wondering what peoples feelings are on it.

It's really hard to determine how good stats are when the fight is going well and healing is plentiful and easy. If you ended the fight with 45% mana and 0 people dead and a good position on amount of healing done the fight was probably not a good place to test your healing capability for obviuos reasons - it's an easy fight and you could've done it either way, so saying something worked is quite pointless.

The math goes for a worst case scenario where you will be using as much mana as possible on as many heals as possible. The only thing not taken into account is burst which is quite impossible to do as for burst healing the only thing that matters is +healing and nothing else.

Did you write this calculator yourself?
I would like to know how it values crit - does it assume that all crit heals overheal or not? (would be nice if you could set what % of the crit heals only caused overhealing)
Does the crit value assume you spam your heals regardless of if you go oom or not or does it do a more sophisticated calculation for how many heals you can cast with your mana + the mana you'd get from a part of those heals critting?
I would add a "shadowpriest DPS" input as it makes a huge difference to your regen, as well a # of mana tide totems used (preferably taking into account the mana lost from not having mana spring for the duration).
Is divine illumination and divine favor assumed to be used on-cooldown to full effect? As you can't always use them that way... It's not like a DPS trinket that you pop whenever the cooldown is up and you know you have 20s to pump DPS - heals might not be needed for some of that time regardless of how well you plan it (although you can minimize it).

I hope my comments are in place let me know if I'm missing anything please.

On of the troubles with theorycrafting paladin healing is that the spells we use (and the benefit we get from various stats) can vary a lot depending on the fight. Also, different people here obvious use different tactics in terms of FoL/HL and downranking, and that too will effect stat utility.

In general, Flash of Light (and HoL 4) sees more benefit from stacking mana regen, and Holy Light from spellcrit, because the mana saved from critting is much larger on HL, thanks to its much higher mana cost.

My approach to healing has been to concentrate on FoL, saving HL and cooldowns for recovery from burst damage. As such, I've stacked mana regen and healing. In a situations where FoL simply doesn't have sufficient healing output, I'd want to concentrate more on spellcrit, and this is probably reflected in the differences in tier itemization (although as I haven't gotten past more than KZ/Maulgar, I'm not in a position to say).

So, when I say T4 is mostly poorly itemized for healing, I mean that it generally gives spellcrit over mana regen, and that's not what I currently want. It may be that, down the line, I'll grab all the spellcrit I can get my hands on, if I'm having to rely on HL rather than FoL, and then T4 will rock.