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Old 07/25/07, 2:19 PM   #31
oldmandennis
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
JOW is 50% chance, or 37 mana per wand attack, right?

If that's true, then the speed is easily the most important part of wanding back your mana, much more important then stats. The [Consecrated Wand] from a duskwood ally only quest will get your mana back the fastest, as it's the only 1.2 wand in the game (30.8 mana/s). Next best is the [Wand of the Seer], a netherstorm quest reward available to both factions (29 mana/s). It's also the highest damage 1.3 speed wand. If you have trashed that for some reason, the next best is the Sporeggar rep one [Sporeling's Firestick] (28.5 mana/s). Assuming I got JOW right, it will easily beat any epic wand with regen stats, based on its superior speed.

None of these are shadow wands, there isn't much of an excuse to use one when the firestick is clearly superior and easily obtainable.

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Old 07/25/07, 2:39 PM   #32
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by tetracycloide View Post
I noticed that wanding procs my [Darkmoon Card: Crusade] so I thought I could use it has a fast way to reset the stack without using any mana. Then I noticed I had two aura of the crusade buffs on me and realized that it does not proc the +spell damage, it procs the +AP. Interesting indeed.
Also if you get the 35 Demo talent, 5% more crit for you and the pet, it will increase your wand crit as well.

AP used to effect wands and agility added to the crit rate of them a few years ago, but not anymore. The mechanics (wands are like melee attacks yet do spell damage) is still in the game. Wands use your ranged weapon crit rate, which is 5% normally without talents.

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Old 07/25/07, 5:35 PM   #33
 sordee
Priest for Hire
 
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Sordee
Tauren Priest
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by frmorrison View Post
Wands use your ranged weapon crit rate, which is 5% normally without talents.
Imagine if you could use a scope on a wand!
Stabilized Eternium Scope

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Old 07/27/07, 1:12 PM   #34
Fondren
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Fizzcrank
Originally Posted by Zure View Post
Periodic damage doesn't consume charges. You didn't even quote the right description of the spell!

Just delete your post imo...
Apologies. I quoted WOWWIKI, which is obviously out of date. If you'll point me to the correct description I'll be glad to correct my post.

Originally Posted by oldmandennis View Post
If that's true, then the speed is easily the most important part of wanding back your mana, much more important then stats. The [Consecrated Wand] from a duskwood ally only quest will get your mana back the fastest, as it's the only 1.2 wand in the game (30.8 mana/s).
Thanks, Dennis. Very useful information. You've convinced me, and I'll be spreading the word within my guild as well.

The auction house is my favorite form of PvP.

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Old 07/27/07, 1:24 PM   #35
tetracycloide
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Warlock
 
Quel'dorei
Originally Posted by Fondren View Post
If your guild really relies on ISB for additional shadow damage, then you really need to find a way to live with your wanding healers.

Personally, I'd be more concerned with all the SW:Pain stacks out there ticking away your charges. They're much more likely to drain ISB.
Any guild with a warlock in it relies on ISB for additional shadow damage, every lock in your raid is assuming at least 30-40% ISB uptime if they're casting shadowbolts otherwise they'd more than likely be better off casting incinerate.

SW: P does not consume charges, SW: D and MB do but they certainly don't consume charges on the order of once every 1.3-1.5 secs for a measly 20% of a couple hundred damage.

If you've never played a warlock it's more than likely you had no idea what ISB was or how vital it is to any build spamming shadowbolts (read: all serious warlock raiding builds). It's a big deal though, and keep in mind that wanding with a shadow wand also hurts the shadow priests DPS as well which, in turn, means less mana back for the shadow priest's group. So do the raid a favor and pick up a non-shadow based wand.

My vanity is justified.

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Old 07/27/07, 4:44 PM   #36
Fondren
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Fizzcrank
Originally Posted by tetracycloide View Post
So do the raid a favor and pick up a non-shadow based wand.
Thanks for the info. I plan to.

Also, thanks for setting me straight on the DOT situation. I'm going to edit my original post.

The auction house is my favorite form of PvP.

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Old 09/06/07, 4:55 PM   #37
Kirk
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Undermine
Originally Posted by frmorrison View Post
Also if you get the 35 Demo talent, 5% more crit for you and the pet, it will increase your wand crit as well.

AP used to effect wands and agility added to the crit rate of them a few years ago, but not anymore. The mechanics (wands are like melee attacks yet do spell damage) is still in the game. Wands use your ranged weapon crit rate, which is 5% normally without talents.
Umm, no. But I say this only because I've been testing it. Data first, then explanations.

70 Night Elf priest, naked except for wand, shooting at Dr Boom (level 68) till the wand broke - he died once during this and I waited till he respawned and continued the process. Wand is "Wand of the Netherwing" (sorry, don't know how to link) which only adds to Stamina. Spell Crit (paperdoll) from Int is 3.05%. Melee/Range crit (from paperdoll) is 5.08%.

During the sequence only three results were obtained: Hit, Critical Hit, and Resist.

Total attacks: 8569
Total Hits: 8121
Total Crits: 278
Total Resists: 170

Miss rate: 1.9839%
Crit rate: 3.2443%

Observations and tentative conclusions:
1) The crit rate is significantly closer to 3.05% than to 5.08%. This tends to support the idea the spell attack table is used instead of the ranged attack table. Supplemental but by themselves very weak evidence is: a) the miss is a "resist"; and b) crit damage modifier is 150%.

2) The slightly higher rate is interesting. It alone would imply level may influence crits. What I'm discovering, however, is that this is not necessarily true over other tests. As in...

Additional: I made a similar test - there are enough differences it cannot be considered conclusive, but it tends to support the above. This time my night elf priest was fully geared and had a 6.59% paperdoll spell crit rate, still a 5.08 ranged crit rate, and used the calming spore reed. Out of 2959 attacks, 189 were critical hits - giving us a 6.3873 crit rate. Note two facts. First, this approximates the new spell crit rate. Second, it is LOWER than the paperdoll crit rate. I find it curious. I have had similar wild divergences using other wands - but the crit rate tends to approximate the paperdoll spell crit rate regardless of where I apply it.

Untested: do spell-damage enhancing talents (such as shadowform and shadow-weave) affect the performance? And do wand hits proc other items and talents?

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Old 09/06/07, 5:14 PM   #38
Kirk
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Undermine
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
Umm, no. But I say this only because I've been testing it. Data first, then explanations.

70 Night Elf priest, naked except for wand, shooting at Dr Boom (level 68) till the wand broke - he died once during this and I waited till he respawned and continued the process. Wand is "Wand of the Netherwing" (sorry, don't know how to link) which only adds to Stamina. Spell Crit (paperdoll) from Int is 3.05%. Melee/Range crit (from paperdoll) is 5.08%.

During the sequence only three results were obtained: Hit, Critical Hit, and Resist.

Total attacks: 8569
Total Hits: 8121
Total Crits: 278
Total Resists: 170

Miss rate: 1.9839%
Crit rate: 3.2443%

(snip)
I forgot 3) - the miss rate is consistent with spell attack table. Specifically, even level attacks for spells are 4% miss, while for melee/ranged they're 5% miss. Historical patterns of both indicate that each level difference (for at least two levels) is 1% per level. The ~2% miss rate is consistent with spell table at two levels of difference.

Wands are spell attack table, not ranged.

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Old 09/06/07, 10:34 PM   #39
Leveret
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Darkspear
I'm curious whether wands are capable of activating other on-hit trinkets. Since wands proc the physical bonus rather than the magical bonus of the Darkmoon Card: Crusade, perhaps wands are able to proc other physical chance on hit trinkets, but not any magical chance on hit trinkets.

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Old 09/07/07, 12:21 AM   #40
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
For the purposes of procs, it would appear that wands count as "ranged hit" and "do damage" but not "spell damage" or "XXX damage" where XXX is a spell school because, despite doing damage of that school, they are not spells and the ambiguous wording does not reflect that they are looking for, eg shadow spells, not just shadow damage.

Debuffs, in general, only look at damage type. It's self-buffs, procs, and abilities, that bother with whether the damage is a spell or not. JoW, of course, does not distinguish between types of attacks but I don't know if JoL does. If it triggers on ranged attacks it may trigger on wands as well.

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Old 09/07/07, 11:22 AM   #41
Braque
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Turalyon (EU)
JoL health restore will trigger on melee attacks only.

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Old 09/07/07, 1:34 PM   #42
Leveret
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Darkspear
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
For the purposes of procs, it would appear that wands count as "ranged hit" and "do damage" but not "spell damage" or "XXX damage" where XXX is a spell school because, despite doing damage of that school, they are not spells and the ambiguous wording does not reflect that they are looking for, eg shadow spells, not just shadow damage.

Debuffs, in general, only look at damage type. It's self-buffs, procs, and abilities, that bother with whether the damage is a spell or not. JoW, of course, does not distinguish between types of attacks but I don't know if JoL does. If it triggers on ranged attacks it may trigger on wands as well.
If the damage is not classified as a spell, does that automatically mean the game looks at the damage as physical? That is to say, does this mean that the wand damage is counted as physical when it is dealt, but is counted as a particular school of magic when it hits the target?

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Old 09/07/07, 4:14 PM   #43
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
When you perform a damaging attack, it's classified as (attack/ability/spell), with spell further split into schools. When the damage lands, it's only classified by schools. A wand attack counts as an attack, not a spell, when launched so it doesn't even get into the school breakdown. It's not that it counts as physical, it's that since it's not a spell such a distinction doesn't exist (it doesn't count as a physical spell like taunt or demo shout). When it lands it counts as the appropriate school of damage.

I think.

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Old 09/07/07, 7:53 PM   #44
Krevan
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Mannoroth
I tried with Dr.Boom, here are the results:

806 Shadow Spell Damage, 7.45% shadow hit, 24.31% shadow crit (with a shadow wand):


20 Shadow Spell Damage, 0.00% shadow hit, 3.27 shadow crit (with shadow wand):

Last edited by Krevan : 09/07/07 at 8:01 PM.

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Old 09/07/07, 10:21 PM   #45
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
I went to Dr. Boom and used the Wand for a while, +spell damage does nothing, but wands do crit with regards to your spell crit rate.

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