stormrunner

I'm seeing some strange behaviour for the stats listed in the character window.

I get naked (character that is), log out, log in, note down the various base stats + attack power, etc, then put on all items, note down stats again. If I now log out & log in again, then the stats change - specifically I lose approx 33 attack power and 37 RAP. And if I get naked again, the base stats for AP and RAP are now 33 & 37 less than originally reported. If I then log out & log in again, the base stats go back to normal - i.e. original values.

Both the original base stats and the stats after putting on all items (i.e. before logging out / in) match the AP & RAP formulae for hunters (AP = agi + str + 2 * lvl - 20, RAP = agi + 2 * lvl - 10).

Couple of questions for anyone who may have come across this before:

- Is this a known bug with WoW?
- Are the values displayed in the character window the ones used in the combat calculations? Specifically, if I toddle off to fight when the character window is displaying 33/37 less for AP/RAP will I actually have less AP/RAP in combat?

 

diospadre

Yes this is a bug. I'm not sure if your stats are actually lower than what they should be or if it's just a display bug, but like you said swapping your gear in and out fixes it.

 

Goggles

Sometimes I notice different stats to what I think I should have. I usually just remove a load of my gear and then put it back on and it sorts itself. Last time I checked on test realm I was some +damage down on what I had on normal realm but as far as I could see no gear had change. I think it may have been my metagem (12 +damage and run speed) not being active but I've no idea why it wasn't as I've got more than enough gems socketed elsewhere.

Not actually a member of Refusion on Burning Blade.

 

Mencius

Yeah, I notice this with mp5 all the time. And whats worse, I have to put my gear on in a specific order to get the highest value. Not sure whether the highest value is the correct one, but it sucks none the less.

 

• frmorrison

I get this "bug" sometimes too, but if I remove a few pieces of gear and reequip then the window becomes correct.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Yussef

Wasn't there an issue with items sharing the same suffix? i.e. multiple Bandit items wouldn't always stack properly? Noticed some of your items share the same suffix at least, but it may be worth testing without those items and with various combinations.

 

Evalara

I've noticed the character sheet being incorrect when stacking Adept's Elixir and Superior Wizard Oil. The listed spell damage will only reflect one, but I tested and verified that they do in fact stack.

 

Kyrillian

I noticed that when using Itemrack sometimes my Helm would get swapped first or before I had met the meta gem requirement and then I would have 180 less HP. Usually just taking something off then putting it back on fixes it.

 

stormrunner

I've just checked the suffix thing - tried equipping one of each suffix - but could still reproduce the bug, so don't think it's that.

Noticed that order of equipping weapons seems to cause problems as well. If I do them first, then AP & RAP stack up as expected, but if I do them last, then I get weird numbers again.

I guess I'll just have to get into the habit of stripping & re-equipping before any raids. Lol.

 

mynciboi

I've noticed this too; it seems to go wrong when switching gear and won't fix itself until I shift in and out out of forms. Also when switching between my clefthoof and moonglade chests while in hiding in catform destealths me and resets my energy to zero, which can be irritating.

 

Yussef

Your weapon of the Bandit provides you with 21AP and 10 Agility, which provides a base of 31AP, which is kinda close to the AP values you listed as missing. I have no idea what your talent choices are, as the Armoury shows you as having no talents, could any talents be contributing to some of the difference?

 

tai

Does the /console reloadui command change anything stat wise ? For example if your stats are "wrong", try to reload the ui and see if there's a difference.

 

◊ Cathela

I've noticed similar behavior. In my case, my avoidance stats in tanking gear are a little bit off until I either use Holy Shield (the stats are correct after it expires) or I switch out my helm and put it back on.

The theories I've heard to explain this:

1) Identical enchants/equip-effects/socket-bonuses don't always stack properly the first time around.

2) Enchants on some pieces are erroneously ignored until you de-equip and re-equip the item.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

PsiVen

My Boots of Elusion don't add any defense on my character screen unless I swap out Battlescar and re-equip them. But as I recall it seemed to be the defense from my shield (Sha'tar + 2 talasites) that wasn't adding, not the boots themselves. Since the Battlescar also have a talasite in them I assumed this had something to do with it.

 

stormrunner

Some more info:

- The "bad" items appear to be "Scheelite Ring of the Bandit", "Honor Hold Saber of the Bandit" and "Dreadhawk's Schynbald of the Hunt".
- If any 2 of these 3 items are equipped, either on their own or with a bunch of other items, then the problem occurs.
- If only 1 of these 3 items is equipped, again either on its own or with a bunch of other items, then the problem does not occur.
- The specifics of "the problem" are: I load up the items and get the expected AP & RAP; I then log out / back in and the AP & RAP are both off by some number.
- Only way to fix the bad numbers is to unequip the offending items and then log out / back in.
- Reloading the GUI does not fix the symptoms of the problem - neither with nor without unequipping the offending items.
- The 3 items all have Attack Power bonuses of the form "+NN Attack Power". When 2 of the items are equipped together, what the character window (& also possibly combat...) appears to be doing after log out / in is using the minimum of the 2 bonuses for both items. So if the ring (+26) and the boots (+59) are both equipped, then the AP number will be out by 33 (=59 - 26).
- Items with AP bonuses of the form "Equip: Increase attack power by NN" do not cause any problems.

And boy, it's been an exciting couple of hours figuring this out...

 

sp00n

Hm.
Try to grab a Dirk and make some testings, if these AP are really missing.

Against an completely unarmored target and with 1000 AP (actually I have no clue whatsoever how much AP a hunter has at 66, not even at 70), your attacks should be between 115.29 and 117.29. With 33 AP less this would be between 111.51 and 113.51.

Of course armor changes these values, but since the two damage ranges don't overlap, it should be still easy to see.

The formula is (Weapon Damage + (AP / 14 * Weapon Speed)).

Try to see if the 33 AP are really missing, or if it's just a display bug.
Just grab someone and duel him. Have him strip all his gear, type /combatlog and start beating him. Then repeat with/without equipping those items.
Look at the damage range for each attempt, or just post the combat log here.

 

stormrunner

Ok, will do. I'll post the results & all relevant stats here.

 

Zamaar

edit: nm shouldn't post when I just wake up from sleep :p

 

stormrunner

OK, results are clear: the "bad" AP stats displayed in the character window are those used in combat.

Conducted test as suggested by sp00n. My level 66 night elf hunter was equipped only with "Scheelite Ring of the Bandit", "Dreadhawk's Schynbald of the Hunt" and a "Dirk". I duelled a naked level 65 human mage.

Correct AP should be 428. I logged out & back in and AP now displayed as 395 (=428 - 33). I hacked away at the mage and caused 47-49 damage. Using formula for min damage: 1 + 1.6 * (395/14) = 46. That's close enough.

I then unequipped & re-equipped which reset the AP to its correct value (this doesn't often work - usually have to log out / in when unequipped). I hacked away again and caused 51-53 damage. Formula for min damage: 1 + 1.6 * (428/14) = 50. Again, close enough.

Combat log here:

http://www.pondlife.co.uk/public/WoW...418%201059.txt

This is a nasty little bug. What's the best way to report this to Blizzard?

 

stormrunner

Hehe - this bug affects Armory as well. I've left my character in the "bad" state & Armory is now reporting the incorrect AP of 395:

http://armory.wow-europe.com/charact...&n=Stormrunner

Not too surprising since you would expect all the Blizzard apps to be using the same APIs / engines.

 

sp00n

While the numbers show that there is a bug with the AP calculation also for combat mechanics, the actual numbers don't match the expected outcome.

So either the formula is not entirely correct or you have some damage buffs/talents.

Take a look:
Although the mage was naked, he had atleast *a bit* armor (you cannot have 0 armor unless you are affected by something like Sunder Armor).
But let's say he did have 0 armor, just for the sake of it.

So the highest possible damage with 428 AP (you did take the values for AP and not RAP right?) would be as shown above 51.914. But your proven value was 53.

So how much AP would we need for 53 damage against a 0 armor target?
We can convert the formula to
(53-3)/1.6*14
to see how much AP is needed for a given damage, which yields 437.5 AP needed for a swing to cause 53 damage.
Which is 9.5 AP higher than your actual AP was.

For the lower end (395 AP) this formula gives
(49-3)/1.6*14= 402.5 AP, which - again - is higher than your actual swing - by 7.5 AP.


Now if we take into account rounding and that a swing with a calculated damage of 52.445 is converted to 53 damage, the AP difference gets lower, but is still above the actual AP value:
(52.445-3)/1.6*14= 432.64375
Still roughly 4.5 more AP required than available.

So basically these leaves us with these points:

• We know that the mage had at least some hundreds of armor. What is the current formula to calculate mitigation?
• Why is the actual damage range higher than the expected calculated, even without taking armor into consideration?
• Is the formula itself wrong (Weapon Damage + (AP/14*Speed))?
• Is one level difference (the mage was level 65, the attacker level 66) causing this?
  For PvE at least a level difference (and weapon skill <-> defense) doesn't increase/decrease the damage of a swing, it only affect its outcome (at least as far as I know).
• Is there another bug in the character screen, additional to the one we have been observing?
• Did I make a mistake somewhere?

 

stormrunner

I'm definitely using AP figures not RAP - and you can currently see the "bad" figures in the Armory. Can't get in to WoW at the moment, so can't check Armor for the mage (Ebony), but it should be 2 * agility = 2 * 37 = 74. Using the WoWWiki formula this gives a damage reduction of 0.8% for a level 65.

The extra damage comes from the hunter's Humanoid Slaying talent - 3 out of 3 = extra 3% damage against humanoid targets. So total max damage = 51.9 * 1.03 * 0.992 = 53.0.

So the formulas match OK and Blizzard definitely have a bug.

 

sp00n

Ah ok, fine then.

So at least we've proven now that the humanoid slaying talent works correctly. *g*

 

Andrise

The 16 defense/17 dodge helm enchant is the culprit here. Anytime you zone, you'll lose the effect until you swap out the helmet. Holy Shield also fixes it for paladins, but I don't *think* shield block fixes it for warriors, though I am uncertain.

 

stormrunner

Has there been any response from Blizzard about these various weird behaviours? For what it's worth, I'm going to raise a ticket in game to report the AP problem.