Moonkin DPS Numbers/Comparisons - Page 7

Yes · 04/24/07, 12:45 PM

Okay, dropping spelldamage by 121, dropping int to 0, having NET starfire crit at 30% (30.05) I get: 1325.790 dps at 0 lag, 1162.467 at reasonable lag. (.4)

the way I model crits taking off spell cast time is:

Cast =3-0.5*(critchance)

When I multiply your result by misery/shadows, I get 1347.885 which is very close to what my number is. Actually, it is higher!

nikitabanana · 04/24/07, 12:52 PM

Compiling it into 1 post.

Derrida · 04/24/07, 12:58 PM

Assuming you've got access to anything T5 or equivalent cloth/crafted what kind of damage/crit is attainable? 1321 seems unreasonably high.

nikitabanana · 04/24/07, 1:35 PM

...Compiling it all.

nikitabanana · 04/24/07, 3:16 PM

Compiling it into 1 post.

Yes · 04/24/07, 3:39 PM

Model the shadowpriest as a straight up 250 mp5, add jow (37 mana every hit, at 3.2s cast = 57~ mp5.
Are you also modeling the int to mp5 (50~ mp5) Spirit regen (let's say 40 mp5), potion for 80 mp5?
The above gives about 6k mana every minute, basically countering the mana use.

Model the cooldown/cast time as cast time/cooldown + .3 or .4~ s (- for cooldown, + for cast time) to bring it in line with latency.
As we can see roughly after sticking in a shadowpriest with a moonkin, the oomkin relies on the mana from spriest to get mana.

Some notes: The build relies on 5 (or 6) crafted items. Gear is basically identical to a fire mage.
Compared to a fire mage with same gear we see expected dps be about 175 less (Depending on shaman dps, this seems to give no increase in raid dps over a fire mage, but it does not give a net decrease ever)
Aggro is a little bit more twitchy. It basically comes down to oomkin scaling worse with latency, and mage scaling better with spelldamage (imp scorch does not exist for oomkin, etc).
From my calculations, no matter how many shadow priests you stick in a group, arcane blast is simply not scaling well enough mana wise to count on arcane mages, even if they can put out short term 2000+ dps.

In closing, we have concluded nothing.

nikitabanana · 04/24/07, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by Yes

Model the shadowpriest as a straight up 250 mp5, add jow (37 mana every hit, at 3.2s cast = 57~ mp5.
Are you also modeling the int to mp5 (50~ mp5) Spirit regen (let's say 40 mp5), potion for 80 mp5?
The above gives about 6k mana every minute, basically countering the mana use.

Model the cooldown/cast time as cast time/cooldown + .3 or .4~ s (- for cooldown, + for cast time) to bring it in line with latency.
As we can see roughly after sticking in a shadowpriest with a moonkin, the oomkin relies on the mana from spriest to get mana.

Some notes: The build relies on 5 (or 6) crafted items. Gear is basically identical to a fire mage.
Compared to a fire mage with same gear we see expected dps be about 175 less (Depending on shaman dps, this seems to give no increase in raid dps over a fire mage, but it does not give a net decrease ever)
Aggro is a little bit more twitchy. It basically comes down to oomkin scaling worse with latency, and mage scaling better with spelldamage (imp scorch does not exist for oomkin, etc).
From my calculations, no matter how many shadow priests you stick in a group, arcane blast is simply not scaling well enough mana wise to count on arcane mages, even if they can put out short term 2000+ dps.

In closing, we have concluded nothing.

I meant 50mp/s. Also, I gave the oomkin 200 spirit, which is pretty much where they'd be fully raid buffed in dps gear, which is actually 37mana/5. I'm compiling this all into one post with the 900dmg #'s.

nikitabanana · 04/24/07, 4:26 PM

Originally Posted by Yes

Model the shadowpriest as a straight up 250 mp5, add jow (37 mana every hit, at 3.2s cast = 57~ mp5.
Are you also modeling the int to mp5 (50~ mp5) Spirit regen (let's say 40 mp5), potion for 80 mp5?
The above gives about 6k mana every minute, basically countering the mana use.

Model the cooldown/cast time as cast time/cooldown + .3 or .4~ s (- for cooldown, + for cast time) to bring it in line with latency.
As we can see roughly after sticking in a shadowpriest with a moonkin, the oomkin relies on the mana from spriest to get mana.

Some notes: The build relies on 5 (or 6) crafted items. Gear is basically identical to a fire mage.
Compared to a fire mage with same gear we see expected dps be about 175 less (Depending on shaman dps, this seems to give no increase in raid dps over a fire mage, but it does not give a net decrease ever)
Aggro is a little bit more twitchy. It basically comes down to oomkin scaling worse with latency, and mage scaling better with spelldamage (imp scorch does not exist for oomkin, etc).
From my calculations, no matter how many shadow priests you stick in a group, arcane blast is simply not scaling well enough mana wise to count on arcane mages, even if they can put out short term 2000+ dps.

In closing, we have concluded nothing.

Using the following buffs:
-balance_of_power 2
-dreamstate 3
-focused_starlight 2
-improved_moonfire 2
-innervate 1
-intensity 3
-moonfury 5
-moonglow 3
-moonkin_form 1
-natures_grace 1
-starlight_wrath 5
-vengeance 5
-wrath_of_cenarius 5
-curse_of_shadows 1
-malediction 3
-misery 5
-super_mana_potion 1
-spirit 150
-intellect 300
-innervate 1
-judgement_of_wisdom 1
-blessing_of_wisdom 1
-dark_rune 1
-mp5 250 <-- shadowpriest mp5.
-mageblood_potion 1
-level 70
-wrath_of_air 1
-flask_of_power 1
-brilliant_wizard_oil 1
-improved_divine_spirit 1

1 is either true or false, the ones iwth more then 3 indicate the talent levels.

900+dmg base before the above buffs like flasks, etc. 20 base crit, 16 base hit.
This takes into account personal innervate, the int mp5 talent, etc.

Basically, this is a moonkin completely fucking stacked out....with the entire raid centered around his dps.

Analyzing sequence: ffire/insect_swarm/starfire
Spell=ffire Rank=1 Dmg=0/0 Avg=0 DPS=0 DPM=0.00 MPS=2.78 DoT=40.0
Spell=insect_swarm Rank=6 Dmg=1864/1864 Avg=1845 DPS=137 DPM=12.68 MPS=10.78 DoT=12.0
Spell=starfire Rank=8 Dmg=2629/2754 CritDmg(34.0%)=5258/5508 Avg=3571 DPS=1262 DPM=11.62 MPS=108.55 Cast=2.8
Sequence Results: DPS=1210.4 DPM=35.2 MPS=34.4 DS=68% D/C=11.5 D/H=17.9 OOM=0sec DoT-Refresh=16%

As I said, this basically means that a group is designed around the moonkin to its optimize dps.

Interestingly, even with the shadow priest - throw in moonfire and you get a 50ish dps increase and go oom in 322s :P.

nikitabanana · 04/24/07, 4:33 PM

No totem of wrath (3%hit/crit) was applied , nor stormstrike (since it's arcane spells)+

Efejel · 04/24/07, 7:51 PM

1) You're underestimating spirit on the best pieces of Balance DPS gear.
2) The coefficients for Wrath & Starfire that are generally floating about are wrong: 132% for max rank Starfire ( (spell_dmg + (char_sht_dmg * 1.2) * 1.1) and 73.86% for max rank Wrath ( ( spell_dmg + ( char_sht_dmg * (2 / 3.5) ) + ( char_sht_dmg * .1 )) * 1.1 fit what is observed in game.

See a potential list of gear (pre-Tier 5 changes) at http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...80772&sid=1#11

The upshot: Projected char sheet values (unbuffed): 389 int, 235 spi, 11.98% hit (+4% from talent), 14.78% crit, 970 dmg

A night elf would have: +5 int, -2 spi
An aldor (not scryer) would have: -5 crit rating, +6 dmg (and would be using either Arcanist's Stone or Starkiller's Bauble in place of the Scryer's Bloodgem, so would have to min-max elsewhere slightly differently.

nikitabanana · 04/24/07, 8:21 PM

Originally Posted by Efejel

1) You're underestimating spirit on the best pieces of Balance DPS gear.
2) The coefficients for Wrath & Starfire that are generally floating about are wrong: 132% for max rank Starfire ( (spell_dmg + (char_sht_dmg * 1.2) * 1.1) and 73.86% for max rank Wrath ( ( spell_dmg + ( char_sht_dmg * (2 / 3.5) ) + ( char_sht_dmg * .1 )) * 1.1 fit what is observed in game.

See a potential list of gear (pre-Tier 5 changes) at http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...80772&sid=1#11

The upshot: Projected char sheet values (unbuffed): 389 int, 235 spi, 11.98% hit (+4% from talent), 14.78% crit, 970 dmg

A night elf would have: +5 int, -2 spi
An aldor (not scryer) would have: -5 crit rating, +6 dmg (and would be using either Arcanist's Stone or Starkiller's Bauble in place of the Scryer's Bloodgem, so would have to min-max elsewhere slightly differently.

If you think the spirit on the gear is worth getting the gear even though it's really low +dmg, you're entirely wrong.

wrong wrong wrong.

Efejel · 04/24/07, 8:32 PM

I don't think it's worth getting, I'm just looking at the actual gear that's available in the game rather than arbitrarily pulling numbers out of the air.

Not to mention this set of gear has more +dmg than the one you mentioned (albeit lower crit) unless you were factoring in Lunar Guidance after the fact.

And don't forget an Idol: 55 dmg for Starfire or 25 dmg (not normalized for casting time) to Wrath.

EDIT: And Mystical Skyfire Diamond should also be included in serious calculations.

Boevis · 04/24/07, 9:09 PM

Originally Posted by Efejel

2) The coefficients for Wrath & Starfire that are generally floating about are wrong: 132% for max rank Starfire ( (spell_dmg + (char_sht_dmg * 1.2) * 1.1) and 73.86% for max rank Wrath ( ( spell_dmg + ( char_sht_dmg * (2 / 3.5) ) + ( char_sht_dmg * .1 )) * 1.1 fit what is observed in game.

Actually the +damage coef I stated are absolutely correct. All you did there is added the effects of Moonfury (Spell Mod) and called me wrong ;p The Damage coef for Starfire is 120%, the damage coef for wrath is still ~63%. The +10% modifier from Moonfury is multiplied after you add base damage and +dmg from gear.

Efejel · 04/24/07, 9:28 PM

The only problem with doing it that way is that most people are using a source like wowhead ( http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=26985 ) to get their spell damage.

The actual spell pane values are greater than the numbers on Wowhead * 1.1.

Wrath(10) is 422-475 (not 419.1-471.9).
Starfire(8) is 605-711 (not 594 - 699.6).

Efejel · 04/24/07, 9:46 PM

Consider this for ~1 wk. after 2.1 goes live (gear changes from 2.1 + Veiled Noble Topaz + new Elixir & Elixir restrictions)
Please let me know if you are aware of upgrades in any of these slots

Ancient Spellcloak of the Highborne - http://wowhead.com/?item=30735 (12 int, 16 crit, 33 dmg)
Adornment of Stolen Souls - http://thottbot.com/?i=59931 (15 sta, 17 int, 21 crit, 25 dmg)
Violet Signet of the Archmage - http://wowhead.com/?item=29287 (21 sta, 21 int, 14 crit, 26 dmg)
Ring of Recurrence - http://thottbot.com/?i=59976 (15 sta, 15 int, 19 crit, 23 dmg)
Scryer's Bloodgem - http://thottbot.com/?i=54563 (32 hit & 150 dmg / 280 heal : 15 sec @ 1.50 min)
Icon of the Silver Crescent - http://thottbot.com/?i=55084 (42 dmg & 153 dmg : 20 sec @ 2.00 min)
Gladiator's War Staff - http://wowhead.com/?item=24557 (48 sta, 32 int, 21 hit, 33 crit, 22 res, 187 dmg)
(L) Antlers of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54925 (22 sta, 25 int, 19 spi, {RS MS: 4 hit}, 20 crit, 32 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R), Mystical Skyfire Diamond (M)}
(L) Pauldrons of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54934 (17 sta, 21 int, 14 spi, {BS YS: 4 dmg}, 33 dmg, 4 mp5)
---{Potent Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(L) Chestpiece of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54932 (22 sta, 23 int, 16 spi, {YS YS BS: 4 hit}, 15 hit, 41 dmg)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Crimson Bracers of Gloom - http://wowhead.com/?item=27462 (18 sta, 18 int, 12 hit, 22 dmg)
(C) Soul-Eater's Handwraps - http://wowhead.com/?item=28780 (28 sta, 21 int, {YS BS: 4 dmg}, 18 crit, 34 dmg)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Girdle of Ruination -http://wowhead.com/?item=24256 (18 sta, 13 int, {RS YS: 4 sta}, 20 crit, 39 dmg)
---{Glowing Nightseye (BR), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Spellstrike Pants - http://wowhead.com/?item=24262 (12 sta, 8 int, {BS YS RS: 4 sta}, 22 hit, 26 crit, 46 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R), Runed Living Ruby (R), Runed Living Ruby (R)}
(C) Extravagant Boots of Malice - http://wowhead.com/?item=27821 (27 sta, 24 int, 14 hit, 30 dmg)

Enchants:
12 dmg ring x2
40 dmg weapon
15 crit, 12 dmg shoulders
+6 all stats, chest
15 dmg bracers
20 dmg gloves
20 sta, 35 dmg legs
12 stam boots
14 hit, 22 dmg helm

Consumables:
30 int, 30 spi Elixir of Draenic Wisdom
24 crit, 24 dmg Adept's Elixir
23 dmg, 20 spi Blackened Basilisk
14 crit, 36 dmg Brilliant Wizard Oil

Buffs:
40 int AI
18 int, 18 spi iMotW
50 spi, (10% spi -> dmg) iDS
49 mp5 iBoW
10% stats BoK

Expected Char Sheet values:
505 int, 334 spi, 11.90% (+4% BoP) chance to hit, 20.01% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin) chance to crit, 1454 +dmg, 228 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate)