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04/24/07, 9:57 PM
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#106
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Skullcrusher
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Marshal's silk cuffs are still the best Im pretty sure. Even more so in 2.1.0 with epic craftable gems.
Havent done the math, but I would suspect neths tear, and ring of the fallen god are also still tops pre-BT, TK loot.
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04/24/07, 10:12 PM
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#107
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
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Neth's Tear & Ring of the Fallen God are from pre-BC content. Do some Druids have them? Yes. Are they generally useful for these comparisons? I'd say they're not, because most Druids don't have them & most guilds are going to go back & repeat that content in order to gear up a Moonkin.
Bracers of Havok > Marshall's Silk Cuffs. And unless you get the hit rating somewhere else, Crimson Bracers of Gloom > either.
EDIT: Just did the math & Sparkling Arcanite Ring > Ring of the Fallen God (at these damage levels). Neth's Tear beats the Icon if you don't use the active buff intelligently (and/or need the +hit).
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04/24/07, 11:03 PM
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#108
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
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If you assume an Elemental Shaman in the group, the optimal gear choices become:
Ancient Spellcloak of the Highborne - http://wowhead.com/?item=30735 (12 int, 16 crit, 33 dmg)
Adornment of Stolen Souls - http://thottbot.com/?i=59931 (15 sta, 17 int, 21 crit, 25 dmg)
Violet Signet of the Archmage - http://wowhead.com/?item=29287 (21 sta, 21 int, 14 crit, 26 dmg)
Sparking Arcanite Ring - http://wowhead.com/?item=28227 (13 sta, 14 int, 10 hit, 14 crit, 22 dmg)
Neltharion's Tear - http://wowhead.com/?item=19379 (44 dam, 16 spell hit)
Icon of the Silver Crescent - http://thottbot.com/?i=55084 (42 dmg & 153 dmg : 20 sec @ 2.00 min)
Nathrezim Mindblade - http://wowhead.com/?item=28770 (15 sta, 15 int, 21 crit, 178 dmg)
Fathomstone - http://wowhead.com/?item=30049 (15 sta, 14 int, 17 crit, 33 dmg)
(L) Antlers of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54925 (22 sta, 25 int, 19 spi, {RS MS: 4 hit}, 20 crit, 32 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R), Mystical Skyfire Diamond (M)}
(L) Pauldrons of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54934 (17 sta, 21 int, 14 spi, {BS YS: 4 dmg}, 33 dmg, 4 mp5)
---{ Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(L) Chestpiece of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54932 (22 sta, 23 int, 16 spi, {YS YS BS: 4 hit}, 15 hit, 41 dmg)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Bracers of Havok - http://wowhead.com/?item=24250 (12 int, {YS: 2 crit}, 30 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R)}
(C) Soul-Eater's Handwraps - http://wowhead.com/?item=28780 (28 sta, 21 int, {YS BS: 4 dmg}, 18 crit, 34 dmg)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Girdle of Ruination - http://wowhead.com/?item=24256 (18 sta, 13 int, {RS YS: 4 sta}, 20 crit, 39 dmg)
---{Glowing Nightseye (BR), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Spellstrike Pants - http://wowhead.com/?item=24262 (12 sta, 8 int, {BS YS RS: 4 sta}, 22 hit, 26 crit, 46 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R), Runed Living Ruby (R), Runed Living Ruby (R)}
(C) Ruby Slippers - http://wowhead.com/?item=28585 (30 sta, 27 int, 13 hit, 32 dmg)
Same buffs, enchants, consumables.
Expected Char Sheet values:
497 int, 339 spi, 9.04% (+4% BoP, 3% totem of wrath) chance to hit, 19.69% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin, 3% ToW) chance to crit, 1538 +dmg (+101 wrath of air), 218 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate)
Last edited by Efejel : 04/28/07 at 7:03 AM.
Reason: Again forgot to list cloak used in totals.
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04/24/07, 11:24 PM
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#109
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Bald Bull
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No matter how you look at it, spellfire/spellstrike sets are better for dps, sustained or not.
Second of all, at least I am doing the calculation you bring up, and since my numbers match nikita's, I assume (s)he is doing it as well.
I could say fireball gets 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.03 * 1.05 *1.13 *1.04 spelldamage.
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04/24/07, 11:36 PM
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#110
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by Efejel
Expected Char Sheet values:
497 int, 339 spi, 9.04% (+4% BoP, 3% totem of wrath) chance to hit, 19.69% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin, 3% ToW) chance to crit, 1538 +dmg (+101 wrath of air), 218 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate, but not including 30~37.5 mp5 from Mana Spring)
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Chain-casting max-rank Starfire in this gear nets 1586.8 DPS.
Post 2.1 I think we can expect that Moonkin will not have Imp FF, and thus will not be keeping it up. As far as mana consumption... I'd have to leave that to someone with more patience than myself. My simplistic modeling below only suggests that the Moonkin will not OOM at an unreasonable rate.
Starting mana in said gear: 497*15 + 2370 = 9825
Total casts on base mana: 9825 / 336 = 29 (81 mana left)
Total cast time = 20 * 3 sec + 9 * 2.5 sec = 82.5 sec
Expected mana return from char sheet mp5 = 82.5 sec * (218 + 37.5) /5 = 4216 + 81
Addt'l casts afforded by regen: 4216 / 336 = 12 (184 mana left)
Total cast time = 8 * 3 sec + 4 * 2.5 sec = 34 sec
Expected mana return from char sheet mp5 = 34 sec * (218 + 37.5) /5 = 1737 + 184
Addt'l casts afforded by regen: 1921 / 336 = 5 (241 mana left)
Total cast time = 3 * 3 sec + 2 * 2.5 sec = 14 sec
Expected mana return from char sheet mp5 = 14 sec * (218 + 37.5) /5 = 715 + 241
Addt'l casts afforded by regen: 956 / 336 =~ 3
Total cast time: 2 * 3 sec + 1 * 2.5 sec = 8.5 sec
82.5 + 34 + 14 + 8.5 =~ 139 sec until OOM with 0 mana pots/dark runes & no innervate, shadow priest or JoW
EDIT: D'oh, I forgot to model meta-gem procs. DPS higher, OOM sooner.
Last edited by Efejel : 04/25/07 at 3:00 AM.
Reason: Also forgot the +55 dmg starfire idol
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04/24/07, 11:42 PM
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#111
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Bald Bull
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Efejel: In real world dps you compensate for lag with casters. That usually includes adding between a .2 (optimistic) to .4 (realistic) delay to casting.
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04/25/07, 12:02 AM
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#112
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by Yes
No matter how you look at it, spellfire/spellstrike sets are better for dps, sustained or not.
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Change offered by 3/3 Spellfire (including set bonus) and changes to other slots to accommodate loss of +hit
Expected Char Sheet values:
491 int, 321 spi, 9.20% (+4% BoP, 3% totem of wrath) chance to hit, 20.75% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin, 3% ToW) chance to crit, 1581 +arcane dmg (+101 wrath of air), 201 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate)
-6 int, -18 spi, negligible +hit (both exceed cap), +1.06% crit, +43 arcane dmg (-129 nature dmg), -17 mp5
The lack of a meta socket on the the Spellstrike Hood makes it seem entirely undesirable.
As buffed (and with appropriate debuffs on the mob) Starfire(10) with this gear set is hitting for 3415 avg. non-crit for 1594 DPS (ignoring, as you note, latency). You'd expect Mystical Skyfire to add 2.5% DPS on average, or ~40 DPS.
Is (C) Spellstrike Hood - http://wowhead.com/?item=24266 (16 sta, 12 int, {BS YS RS: 4 sta}, 16 hit, 24 crit, 46 dmg)
really 40 more DPS than
(L) Antlers of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54925 (22 sta, 25 int, 19 spi, {RS MS: 4 hit}, 20 crit, 32 dmg) ?
Last edited by Efejel : 04/25/07 at 12:18 AM.
Reason: Added lost nature damage
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04/25/07, 12:09 AM
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#113
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by Yes
That usually includes adding between a .2 (optimistic) to .4 (realistic) delay to casting.
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1538 +dmg, 19.69% crit with 0.2 sec latency: 1481.1 DPS (adding in idol: without is 1443.9 DPS)
1538 +dmg, 19.69% crit with 0.4 sec latency: 1388.6 DPS (w/o idol: 1353.8 DPS)
Last edited by Efejel : 04/25/07 at 3:02 AM.
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04/25/07, 11:03 AM
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#114
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Ysondre
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Originally Posted by Efejel
Change offered by 3/3 Spellfire (including set bonus) and changes to other slots to accommodate loss of +hit
Expected Char Sheet values:
491 int, 321 spi, 9.20% (+4% BoP, 3% totem of wrath) chance to hit, 20.75% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin, 3% ToW) chance to crit, 1581 +arcane dmg (+101 wrath of air), 201 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate)
-6 int, -18 spi, negligible +hit (both exceed cap), +1.06% crit, +43 arcane dmg (-129 nature dmg), -17 mp5
The lack of a meta socket on the the Spellstrike Hood makes it seem entirely undesirable.
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If you're socketing for full dps - you won't be able to use a meta gem anyways.
Originally Posted by Efejel
As buffed (and with appropriate debuffs on the mob) Starfire(10) with this gear set is hitting for 3415 avg. non-crit for 1594 DPS (ignoring, as you note, latency). You'd expect Mystical Skyfire to add 2.5% DPS on average, or ~40 DPS.
Is (C) Spellstrike Hood - http://wowhead.com/?item=24266 (16 sta, 12 int, {BS YS RS: 4 sta}, 16 hit, 24 crit, 46 dmg)
really 40 more DPS than
(L) Antlers of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54925 (22 sta, 25 int, 19 spi, {RS MS: 4 hit}, 20 crit, 32 dmg) ?
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With the set bonus, the fact you can get more dmg/crit on it on top of that base as well, and the fact that you won't have the ability to use a metagem unless you sacrafice insanely on the rest of your gear -
yes.
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04/25/07, 11:13 AM
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#115
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Ysondre
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http://ctprofiles.net/5309978
Not sure how people were coming up with 1500+dmg, but that's about 1210 unbuffed with the int talent included for base int.
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04/25/07, 11:17 AM
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#116
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Ysondre
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Originally Posted by Efejel
1538 +dmg, 19.69% crit with 0.2 sec latency: 1481.1 DPS (adding in idol: without is 1443.9 DPS)
1538 +dmg, 19.69% crit with 0.4 sec latency: 1388.6 DPS (w/o idol: 1353.8 DPS)
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1538+dmg, 19.69 crit. I'm not sure what the idol you're talking about does - but if it's a +dmg gain you should just add it onto the top anyways >.<.
I'll assume you mean the 55 dmg starfire one...
Analyzing sequence: starfire
Spell=starfire Rank=8 Dmg=3211/3337 CritDmg(32.0%)=6423/6673 Avg=4279 DPS=1507 DPM=13.93 MPS=108.17 Cast=2.8
Sequence Results: DPS=1506.5 DPM=41.1 MPS=36.7 DS=72% D/C=15.8 D/H=21.1 OOM=2505sec DoT-Refresh=0%
Now, show me a ctprofile with 1538+dmg with 20 crit and 16 hit....
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04/25/07, 11:54 AM
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#117
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Bald Bull
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I think he is calculating flasks in, nikita. Flasks and shama totem, etc.
Also, we must understand that a proper cycle does involve a ff/insect swarm (Because we do not actually WANT a druid doing 1300 dps, because of a lack if a 10% reduction talent like mages/locks have)
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04/25/07, 12:03 PM
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#118
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Back in teh house
Farrstrider
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Honestly, it's great theory craft, but you're going to be threat limitted not dps limitted in that gear, as Bias said in post #1.
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<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
<Zyla> If there's gonna be a dick in the room besides my own, i'd rather it have to be my brother's. You know that kinda sounds bad all typed out like that,
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04/25/07, 12:06 PM
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#119
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Ysondre
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Originally Posted by Yes
I think he is calculating flasks in, nikita. Flasks and shama totem, etc.
Also, we must understand that a proper cycle does involve a ff/insect swarm (Because we do not actually WANT a druid doing 1300 dps, because of a lack if a 10% reduction talent like mages/locks have)
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Well, he was referring to 2.1 a lot. Being that flasks are 70dmg in 2.1, how do we get to 1538+dmg?
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04/25/07, 12:59 PM
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#120
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Yes
Also, we must understand that a proper cycle does involve a ff/insect swarm (Because we do not actually WANT a druid doing 1300 dps, because of a lack if a 10% reduction talent like mages/locks have)
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Originally Posted by Farstrider
Honestly, it's great theory craft, but you're going to be threat limitted not dps limitted in that gear, as Bias said in post #1.
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From the patch notes:
Druids
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- "Subtlety" (Restoration Talent) now applies to all spells, not just healing spells.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=17122
Subtlety Rank 5
Reduces the threat generated by your spells by 20% and reduces the chance your spells will be dispelled by 30%.
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