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Old 04/24/07, 9:57 PM   #106
Caliane
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Skullcrusher
Marshal's silk cuffs are still the best Im pretty sure. Even more so in 2.1.0 with epic craftable gems.

Havent done the math, but I would suspect neths tear, and ring of the fallen god are also still tops pre-BT, TK loot.

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Old 04/24/07, 10:12 PM   #107
Efejel
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonblight
Neth's Tear & Ring of the Fallen God are from pre-BC content. Do some Druids have them? Yes. Are they generally useful for these comparisons? I'd say they're not, because most Druids don't have them & most guilds are going to go back & repeat that content in order to gear up a Moonkin.

Bracers of Havok > Marshall's Silk Cuffs. And unless you get the hit rating somewhere else, Crimson Bracers of Gloom > either.

EDIT: Just did the math & Sparkling Arcanite Ring > Ring of the Fallen God (at these damage levels). Neth's Tear beats the Icon if you don't use the active buff intelligently (and/or need the +hit).

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Old 04/24/07, 11:03 PM   #108
Efejel
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonblight
If you assume an Elemental Shaman in the group, the optimal gear choices become:

Ancient Spellcloak of the Highborne - http://wowhead.com/?item=30735 (12 int, 16 crit, 33 dmg)
Adornment of Stolen Souls - http://thottbot.com/?i=59931 (15 sta, 17 int, 21 crit, 25 dmg)
Violet Signet of the Archmage - http://wowhead.com/?item=29287 (21 sta, 21 int, 14 crit, 26 dmg)
Sparking Arcanite Ring - http://wowhead.com/?item=28227 (13 sta, 14 int, 10 hit, 14 crit, 22 dmg)
Neltharion's Tear - http://wowhead.com/?item=19379 (44 dam, 16 spell hit)

Icon of the Silver Crescent - http://thottbot.com/?i=55084 (42 dmg & 153 dmg : 20 sec @ 2.00 min)
Nathrezim Mindblade - http://wowhead.com/?item=28770 (15 sta, 15 int, 21 crit, 178 dmg)
Fathomstone - http://wowhead.com/?item=30049 (15 sta, 14 int, 17 crit, 33 dmg)

(L) Antlers of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54925 (22 sta, 25 int, 19 spi, {RS MS: 4 hit}, 20 crit, 32 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R), Mystical Skyfire Diamond (M)}
(L) Pauldrons of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54934 (17 sta, 21 int, 14 spi, {BS YS: 4 dmg}, 33 dmg, 4 mp5)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(L) Chestpiece of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54932 (22 sta, 23 int, 16 spi, {YS YS BS: 4 hit}, 15 hit, 41 dmg)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Bracers of Havok - http://wowhead.com/?item=24250 (12 int, {YS: 2 crit}, 30 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R)}

(C) Soul-Eater's Handwraps - http://wowhead.com/?item=28780 (28 sta, 21 int, {YS BS: 4 dmg}, 18 crit, 34 dmg)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Girdle of Ruination - http://wowhead.com/?item=24256 (18 sta, 13 int, {RS YS: 4 sta}, 20 crit, 39 dmg)
---{Glowing Nightseye (BR), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Spellstrike Pants - http://wowhead.com/?item=24262 (12 sta, 8 int, {BS YS RS: 4 sta}, 22 hit, 26 crit, 46 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R), Runed Living Ruby (R), Runed Living Ruby (R)}
(C) Ruby Slippers - http://wowhead.com/?item=28585 (30 sta, 27 int, 13 hit, 32 dmg)

Same buffs, enchants, consumables.

Expected Char Sheet values:
497 int, 339 spi, 9.04% (+4% BoP, 3% totem of wrath) chance to hit, 19.69% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin, 3% ToW) chance to crit, 1538 +dmg (+101 wrath of air), 218 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate)

Last edited by Efejel : 04/28/07 at 7:03 AM. Reason: Again forgot to list cloak used in totals.

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Old 04/24/07, 11:24 PM   #109
Yes
Bald Bull
 
Yes's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonmaw
No matter how you look at it, spellfire/spellstrike sets are better for dps, sustained or not.

Second of all, at least I am doing the calculation you bring up, and since my numbers match nikita's, I assume (s)he is doing it as well.

I could say fireball gets 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.03 * 1.05 *1.13 *1.04 spelldamage.

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Old 04/24/07, 11:36 PM   #110
Efejel
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Efejel View Post
Expected Char Sheet values:
497 int, 339 spi, 9.04% (+4% BoP, 3% totem of wrath) chance to hit, 19.69% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin, 3% ToW) chance to crit, 1538 +dmg (+101 wrath of air), 218 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate, but not including 30~37.5 mp5 from Mana Spring)
Chain-casting max-rank Starfire in this gear nets 1586.8 DPS.
Post 2.1 I think we can expect that Moonkin will not have Imp FF, and thus will not be keeping it up. As far as mana consumption... I'd have to leave that to someone with more patience than myself. My simplistic modeling below only suggests that the Moonkin will not OOM at an unreasonable rate.

Starting mana in said gear: 497*15 + 2370 = 9825
Total casts on base mana: 9825 / 336 = 29 (81 mana left)
Total cast time = 20 * 3 sec + 9 * 2.5 sec = 82.5 sec
Expected mana return from char sheet mp5 = 82.5 sec * (218 + 37.5) /5 = 4216 + 81
Addt'l casts afforded by regen: 4216 / 336 = 12 (184 mana left)
Total cast time = 8 * 3 sec + 4 * 2.5 sec = 34 sec
Expected mana return from char sheet mp5 = 34 sec * (218 + 37.5) /5 = 1737 + 184
Addt'l casts afforded by regen: 1921 / 336 = 5 (241 mana left)
Total cast time = 3 * 3 sec + 2 * 2.5 sec = 14 sec
Expected mana return from char sheet mp5 = 14 sec * (218 + 37.5) /5 = 715 + 241
Addt'l casts afforded by regen: 956 / 336 =~ 3
Total cast time: 2 * 3 sec + 1 * 2.5 sec = 8.5 sec

82.5 + 34 + 14 + 8.5 =~ 139 sec until OOM with 0 mana pots/dark runes & no innervate, shadow priest or JoW

EDIT: D'oh, I forgot to model meta-gem procs. DPS higher, OOM sooner.

Last edited by Efejel : 04/25/07 at 3:00 AM. Reason: Also forgot the +55 dmg starfire idol

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Old 04/24/07, 11:42 PM   #111
Yes
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Dragonmaw
Efejel: In real world dps you compensate for lag with casters. That usually includes adding between a .2 (optimistic) to .4 (realistic) delay to casting.

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Old 04/25/07, 12:02 AM   #112
Efejel
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Yes View Post
No matter how you look at it, spellfire/spellstrike sets are better for dps, sustained or not.
Change offered by 3/3 Spellfire (including set bonus) and changes to other slots to accommodate loss of +hit

Expected Char Sheet values:
491 int, 321 spi, 9.20% (+4% BoP, 3% totem of wrath) chance to hit, 20.75% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin, 3% ToW) chance to crit, 1581 +arcane dmg (+101 wrath of air), 201 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate)

-6 int, -18 spi, negligible +hit (both exceed cap), +1.06% crit, +43 arcane dmg (-129 nature dmg), -17 mp5

The lack of a meta socket on the the Spellstrike Hood makes it seem entirely undesirable.

As buffed (and with appropriate debuffs on the mob) Starfire(10) with this gear set is hitting for 3415 avg. non-crit for 1594 DPS (ignoring, as you note, latency). You'd expect Mystical Skyfire to add 2.5% DPS on average, or ~40 DPS.

Is (C) Spellstrike Hood - http://wowhead.com/?item=24266 (16 sta, 12 int, {BS YS RS: 4 sta}, 16 hit, 24 crit, 46 dmg)
really 40 more DPS than
(L) Antlers of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54925 (22 sta, 25 int, 19 spi, {RS MS: 4 hit}, 20 crit, 32 dmg) ?

Last edited by Efejel : 04/25/07 at 12:18 AM. Reason: Added lost nature damage

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Old 04/25/07, 12:09 AM   #113
Efejel
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Yes View Post
That usually includes adding between a .2 (optimistic) to .4 (realistic) delay to casting.
1538 +dmg, 19.69% crit with 0.2 sec latency: 1481.1 DPS (adding in idol: without is 1443.9 DPS)
1538 +dmg, 19.69% crit with 0.4 sec latency: 1388.6 DPS (w/o idol: 1353.8 DPS)

Last edited by Efejel : 04/25/07 at 3:02 AM.

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Old 04/25/07, 11:03 AM   #114
nikitabanana
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by Efejel View Post
Change offered by 3/3 Spellfire (including set bonus) and changes to other slots to accommodate loss of +hit

Expected Char Sheet values:
491 int, 321 spi, 9.20% (+4% BoP, 3% totem of wrath) chance to hit, 20.75% (+4% FS, 5% moonkin, 3% ToW) chance to crit, 1581 +arcane dmg (+101 wrath of air), 201 mp5 (inc. 3/3 intensity & 3/3 dreamstate)

-6 int, -18 spi, negligible +hit (both exceed cap), +1.06% crit, +43 arcane dmg (-129 nature dmg), -17 mp5

The lack of a meta socket on the the Spellstrike Hood makes it seem entirely undesirable.
If you're socketing for full dps - you won't be able to use a meta gem anyways.

Originally Posted by Efejel View Post
As buffed (and with appropriate debuffs on the mob) Starfire(10) with this gear set is hitting for 3415 avg. non-crit for 1594 DPS (ignoring, as you note, latency). You'd expect Mystical Skyfire to add 2.5% DPS on average, or ~40 DPS.



Is (C) Spellstrike Hood - http://wowhead.com/?item=24266 (16 sta, 12 int, {BS YS RS: 4 sta}, 16 hit, 24 crit, 46 dmg)
really 40 more DPS than
(L) Antlers of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54925 (22 sta, 25 int, 19 spi, {RS MS: 4 hit}, 20 crit, 32 dmg) ?
With the set bonus, the fact you can get more dmg/crit on it on top of that base as well, and the fact that you won't have the ability to use a metagem unless you sacrafice insanely on the rest of your gear -

yes.

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Old 04/25/07, 11:13 AM   #115
nikitabanana
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ysondre
http://ctprofiles.net/5309978

Not sure how people were coming up with 1500+dmg, but that's about 1210 unbuffed with the int talent included for base int.

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Old 04/25/07, 11:17 AM   #116
nikitabanana
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by Efejel View Post
1538 +dmg, 19.69% crit with 0.2 sec latency: 1481.1 DPS (adding in idol: without is 1443.9 DPS)
1538 +dmg, 19.69% crit with 0.4 sec latency: 1388.6 DPS (w/o idol: 1353.8 DPS)

1538+dmg, 19.69 crit. I'm not sure what the idol you're talking about does - but if it's a +dmg gain you should just add it onto the top anyways >.<.

I'll assume you mean the 55 dmg starfire one...

Analyzing sequence: starfire
Spell=starfire Rank=8 Dmg=3211/3337 CritDmg(32.0%)=6423/6673 Avg=4279 DPS=1507 DPM=13.93 MPS=108.17 Cast=2.8
Sequence Results: DPS=1506.5 DPM=41.1 MPS=36.7 DS=72% D/C=15.8 D/H=21.1 OOM=2505sec DoT-Refresh=0%



Now, show me a ctprofile with 1538+dmg with 20 crit and 16 hit....

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Old 04/25/07, 11:54 AM   #117
Yes
Bald Bull
 
Yes's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dragonmaw
I think he is calculating flasks in, nikita. Flasks and shama totem, etc.

Also, we must understand that a proper cycle does involve a ff/insect swarm (Because we do not actually WANT a druid doing 1300 dps, because of a lack if a 10% reduction talent like mages/locks have)

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Old 04/25/07, 12:03 PM   #118
Farstrider
Back in teh house
 
Farstrider's Avatar
 
Farrstrider
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Honestly, it's great theory craft, but you're going to be threat limitted not dps limitted in that gear, as Bias said in post #1.

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Old 04/25/07, 12:06 PM   #119
nikitabanana
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by Yes View Post
I think he is calculating flasks in, nikita. Flasks and shama totem, etc.

Also, we must understand that a proper cycle does involve a ff/insect swarm (Because we do not actually WANT a druid doing 1300 dps, because of a lack if a 10% reduction talent like mages/locks have)
Well, he was referring to 2.1 a lot. Being that flasks are 70dmg in 2.1, how do we get to 1538+dmg?

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Old 04/25/07, 12:59 PM   #120
Maax
Piston Honda
 
Maax's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by Yes View Post
Also, we must understand that a proper cycle does involve a ff/insect swarm (Because we do not actually WANT a druid doing 1300 dps, because of a lack if a 10% reduction talent like mages/locks have)
Originally Posted by Farstrider View Post
Honestly, it's great theory craft, but you're going to be threat limitted not dps limitted in that gear, as Bias said in post #1.
From the patch notes:

Druids
...
- "Subtlety" (Restoration Talent) now applies to all spells, not just healing spells.

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=17122

Subtlety Rank 5
Reduces the threat generated by your spells by 20% and reduces the chance your spells will be dispelled by 30%.

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