Holy crap... Entangling Roots with a 30% chance to resist dispel effects? I may have to respec for Nature's Grasp again just cause it's going to be way too good in PVP...

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=MxcrzicsguVZZxxcx
You don't have to give up intensity.

1) I was using no flask--Adept's Elixir, Blackened Basilisk and the 30 int, 30 spi guardian Elixir that is being added in 2.1
2) I listed every piece of gear, with a link, and every enchant, and every buff.

Ancient Spellcloak of the Highborne - http://wowhead.com/?item=30735 (12 int, 16 crit, 33 dmg)
Adornment of Stolen Souls - http://thottbot.com/?i=59931 (15 sta, 17 int, 21 crit, 25 dmg)
Violet Signet of the Archmage - http://wowhead.com/?item=29287 (21 sta, 21 int, 14 crit, 26 dmg)
Sparking Arcanite Ring - http://wowhead.com/?item=28227 (13 sta, 14 int, 10 hit, 14 crit, 22 dmg)
Neltharion's Tear - http://wowhead.com/?item=19379 (44 dam, 16 spell hit)
Icon of the Silver Crescent - http://thottbot.com/?i=55084 (42 dmg & 153 dmg : 20 sec @ 2.00 min)
Nathrezim Mindblade - http://wowhead.com/?item=28770 (15 sta, 15 int, 21 crit, 178 dmg)
Fathomstone - http://wowhead.com/?item=30049 (15 sta, 14 int, 17 crit, 33 dmg)
Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess - http://wowhead.com/?item=27518 (+55 dmg Starfire)
(L) Antlers of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54925 (22 sta, 25 int, 19 spi, {RS MS: 4 hit}, 20 crit, 32 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R), Mystical Skyfire Diamond (M)}
(L) Pauldrons of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54934 (17 sta, 21 int, 14 spi, {BS YS: 4 dmg}, 33 dmg, 4 mp5)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(L) Chestpiece of Malorne - http://thottbot.com/?i=54932 (22 sta, 23 int, 16 spi, {YS YS BS: 4 hit}, 15 hit, 41 dmg)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Bracers of Havok - http://wowhead.com/?item=24250 (12 int, {YS: 2 crit}, 30 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R)}
(C) Soul-Eater's Handwraps - http://wowhead.com/?item=28780 (28 sta, 21 int, {YS BS: 4 dmg}, 18 crit, 34 dmg)
---{Veiled Noble Topaz (RY), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Girdle of Ruination -http://wowhead.com/?item=24256 (18 sta, 13 int, {RS YS: 4 sta}, 20 crit, 39 dmg)
---{Glowing Nightseye (BR), Glowing Nightseye (BR)}
(C) Spellstrike Pants - http://wowhead.com/?item=24262 (12 sta, 8 int, {BS YS RS: 4 sta}, 22 hit, 26 crit, 46 dmg)
---{Runed Living Ruby (R), Runed Living Ruby (R), Runed Living Ruby (R)}
(C) Ruby Slippers - http://wowhead.com/?item=28585 (30 sta, 27 int, 13 hit, 32 dmg)

Enchants:
12 dmg ring x2
40 dmg weapon
15 crit, 12 dmg shoulders
+6 all stats, chest
15 dmg bracers
20 dmg gloves
20 sta, 35 dmg legs
12 stam boots
14 hit, 22 dmg helm

The UNBUFFED stats: 364 int, 190 spirit, 9.04% chance to hit (NOT including BP), 15.61% crit (including crit from int, NOT including FS/Mk aura), 958 (+55 Starfire) +dmg (NOT including celestial focus), 4 mp5 (NOT including Dreamstate/Intensity).

Consumables:
30 int, 30 spi Elixir of Draenic Wisdom
24 crit, 24 dmg Adept's Elixir
23 dmg, 20 spi Blackened Basilisk
14 crit, 36 dmg Brilliant Wizard Oil

Buffs:
40 int AI
18 int, 18 spi iMotW
50 spi, (10% spi -> dmg) iDS
49 mp5 iBoW
10% stats BoK

3) Yes the starfire idol is what I was talking about, and is the only thing that changed between the italicized numbers & the other numbers.
4) The exact difference between the sets with the Mystical Skyfire Diamond and without DO NOT JUSTIFY USING ANYTHING BUT THE MYSTICAL SKYFIRE DIAMOND
5) All sets include only RARE CRAFTED GEMS (including one that will be available in 2.1, Veiled Noble Topaz) meaning there is some opportunity for slight increases with the crafted/dropped/PvP epic gems.

Meta gems arent all that great in hindsight. At best just assume them to be 12 spelldamage really. Allowing the mp/5 enchant to boots. IF you are a tailor, then without question spellstrike helm/legs is the best. If not, the 2 piece malorne is about 10mp/5 for starfire, 20mp/5 for wrath,ff,is.
I have not really figured out the value of the 48s off innervate. I very much would make 2 and possibly 3 innervates possible on many fights they are not currently.

I really dont think others are reckognizing the value of spirit, or mp/5 for a druid. Earlier in this post we stated several times that the druid runs oom very early compared to others.
The 43 arcane damage gain is not compareable to the 17mp/5, and 18spirit for innervate mana regen. 17mp/5 is enough mana for another starfire every 100seconds. At that listed damage of some 1500raid buffed, thats an easy average 3000damage starfire hit, with 29% chance for 6000 crit. Averaging 3930 damage every 100 seconds. 43 damage is an average 85 damage per cast after buffs, and crit. Chain starfires at 3.2s cast w/lag for 31 casts, 2635 damage.
Only if you have some means to supliment your mana pool does pure dps supercede balanced damage, hit, crit, and mana for a balance spec.

The secondary issue with spellfire is the issue of balance utility.
What is a balance druid good for? wrath and healing.
The druid wont ever be desired for pure starfire dps.
But wrath is unique. Its the highest "pure" dps spell in the game.
Used in much raids atm? not really. Curator is the only real example of where wrath shines. 70% antipushback, high dps. You cant wait for curse of shadow, winterschill, fire vul to build up on curator adds, hydross spawns are another example, (though half are nature immune). Much trash needs to be dps'd down fast, and stacking debuffs is not feasible in these cases. Wrath is high dps naturally.
It is not a utility used much. but it is one of the few things the druid does have in its favor. Ignoring it as a druid would be silly.
Same with the +healing. If you need to heal, your dps is gone. the time and mana spent means your ability to dps was completely comprimised. But, again, its the one thing you do have. There is a reason the windhawk set exists.
spellfire is like walking without a safety net. A proper raid should never need rebirth. But not training it would be retarded now wouldnt it.
Being able to hold dps, and add some lifeblooms, rejuvs, regrowths on trickey transistions is pretty useful.

Actually, assuming CoS is up and you don't have any kind of nature vuln - starfire is higher dps.

A lot of this discussion of Moonkin DPS stemmed from the question of whether or not it's worthwhile to bring a Moonkin to a raid. By dropping Improved Faerie Fire, you've eliminated one of the strongest reasons for a Moonkin to be in a raid group rather than another ranged DPS class.

The balance and resto trees are bloated, but that's for another thread.

3% hit = how much DPS? As has been pointed out, it only works if your melee DPS gears around the assumption that iFF will ALWAYS be up on the mob. In the event you're using a Feral tank it will also, I believe, prevent them from applying FF(F) with the message "A more powerful spell is already active" and thus take away rage-free threat gen. (This also assumes your tank is rage-starved, which is next-to-never the case for a Feral tank, except for possibly during the early going on Gruul if the Druid is OT and not MT). It also eats into a Moonkin's cast time and mana pool, albeit slightly.

The upshot: iFF is an argument for bringing Moonkin on a raid if their DPS is subpar. Personally, I'd rather demonstrate that in the upper stratosphere of gear a Moonkin has roughly the same DPS as a Mage on their own, and let the 5% crit aura do the arguing.





I found an error on my spreadsheet that was doing Spirit * 1.1 instead of Spirit * 0.1 in calculating the total spell damage. Face red, apologies, etc. Fully buffed my number which was 1538 ---> 1198 (before WoA).

The new Starfire DPS number I get is 1340.8 DPS chain casting, 1399.8 modelling meta-gem procs.

With 0.2s latency: 1300.1
With 0.4s latency: 1214.2
Both including modelling meta-gem procs. For safety's sake I rounded (2.5/2) = 1.5, though I'm not sure if 1.65 is more accurate than 1.9 with latency--I don't have the meta gem to do any testing.

3% fewer misses on shield slam/sunder/revenge/etc is not trivial in terms of threat generation.

I'll agree with you on this, though. If moonkin can reach the same DPS as other ranged casters it makes the argument for a raid spot a lot more convincing.

Anyways, sorry for the derail, resume the moonfire spam/theorycrafting

Assuming cos is up. Do you out CoS up on everything? hydross adds?
And it still takes a large amount of +damage for starfire to catch up to wrath even with cos.

You are factoring chance to hit after crit. This is not accurate. Doing so reduces the value of crit, as it assumes a 10% chance to miss, would then reduce damage from crits by 10%.
Crit % however is seperate.
A spell can have 3 outcomes, hit, miss, or crit.
A simplified example would be: with 50% crit rate, 10% chance to resist, and 10000 casts.
The average result would be:
5000crits,
1000 resists
4000 hits.

Not,
1000resists
4500 crits
4500 hits.

Play a duelwield class vs level 73 bosses. 40% glancing blows, 29% miss pre+hit, 6%dodge/parry all create a "crit cap", but your crit rate is not reduced by 75% due to these factors. Your crit rate stays the 30-40% of the total attacks made, it is simply "capped" if you have a higher crit rate then the cap allows, thus the need for +to hit to increase your crit rate for DW classes past 25%.

For melee tables, hit/miss IS calculated after crit.
For caster tables, this is NOT the case.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/spells.html

Note how they never factor Eyonix's crit rate into the chance to hit calculation.

Re-write the equation with the hit term where you think it belongs & I'll let you know the DPS. At ~32% crit * 1% miss = it might be as much as 0.32% more DPS!

But, I've never seen a single shred of evidence to suggest that the system you're talking about is used to determine hits/crits/resists for casters. Anyone have some?