Vdraculya

Hi all. I don't know if this has been covered but I'm having a hard time determining if i need + to hit. I'm well over the 490 D mark and my sunders miss a lot in raids. Should i be putting + hit gems in my yellow sockets and looking for +hit on D gear? All the Wars/tanks that i have talked to said that they don't worry about hit and they just put D/Stam/Avoidance on their items. Any input would be great. Thanks for your time. -V

 

gramr

After reading around, it seems like +10.6% is what you want to have 100% hit on a level 73 mob. As it's 15.8 hit rating for each % of hit, you'll need 167.48 - in other words, 168 - hit rating. Sounds a bit much, so I'm probably wrong.

 

◊ Zoroaster

Off the top of my head you need 8.6% hit for all specials/whites to land. I know that I stick with a couple pieces of +hit gear, like the Mark V throwing star and getting the +hit bonus from a Felsteel piece.

 

Twid

It's a question of priority, really. For maximum threat generation, yes you would need to be wearing 8.6% to hit in order to never "miss" your specials. This does not mean that they will never be parried, or dodged. I believe that the only way to reduce this is via weapon skill. If it's similar to the way hit works, you would want to have 15 weapon skill in order to bring the level 73 mob down to your level. In this case, I'd imagine that the boss would have a base 5% dodge, block, and parry. I can't verify this however, as it would take 39 weapon skill rating for a tank with a +5 racial to accomplish this.

However, your question appeared to be about whether to worry about defense, stamina, and avoidance, or use the sockets for +hit gems.

As has been written about in multiple threads, since your defense is over 490, the priority for your gems should be stamina. Avoidance is great for lowering the overall healing you'll need on a fight, but if the hits that get past your avoidance will rip you to pieces, the times you do avoid attacks are meaningless.

There are a few tanking pieces with hit on them that I would not overlook however. I see them as more of a bonus to a good tanking setup than a focus. The King's Defender is a fantastic tanking sword, as it combines stamina, armor, defense, and hit. If the weapon didn't have the hit on it though, I'd still see it as a stellar tanking weapon.

 

gramr

Out of curiosity, why 8.6%? I know it's 5% versus a level 70 mob, is it 2.3% per level to 73, and x% for the levels above that?

 

Lodekim

Well I wouldn't say it's time to focus on +hit yet. It's a great stat, and when sitting with 5% to hit on specials and whatever else in my vanilla wow tank gear I definitely wasn't seeing many misses (if any) However, at the moment, I don't have trouble holding aggro compared to the trouble I can get dieing to spikes, so I'd set up mitigation over threat (+hit)

I'm also not sure on the numbers, it's been a while since I theorycrafted the +hit necessary for a 1h weapon so I'll stay out of it, but I will say +hit is a stat you should focus when you need to worry about aggro, not when you're worried about living through tanking.

 

Twid

It's not 2.3% per level to 73 as far as I know. Rather it's 1% per level, and each natural 5 defense per level grants a mob 5 * 0.04% = 0.2% extra chance to miss. Thus, it's 5% base + 3% per level + 0.6% from defense

 

Hozz

The above numbers seem accurate to me.

 

Norwest

Like others have said, it depends on priority.The really awesome tanks gear themselves to the specific fight.

If the fight is aggro sensitive, +hit is a great way to increase your threat output. On a fight where the DPS is limited by aggro, +hit is a very valuable stat because it can increase the allowed DPS of the raid. On any fight with an aggro wipe, or an untauntable boss or is a DPS race, +hit boosts threat more than any other stat IIRC.

But on many fights aggro just isn't that much of a concern because the DPS is splitting time between adds/boss, or has to hide, or wear resist gear, or whatever. On those fights it's a useless stat.

 

Mencius

My tanks have been complaining about this a lot recently. They have been putting +hit gems into everything they can and getting their stam thru enchants.

I have never played a warrior, but just fram a healers perspective and watching the fights I can say that it has helped out tanks a lot to get more +hit. Windfury in a tank group is really great for threat generation too, but I'm sure you already knew that.

 

stampy

knock 1% off of all those numbers. they are what you need for a theoretical 100% chance to hit; but i think its pretty generally accepted that you always have a minimum 1% chance to miss (i have no data or reliable source to back this up tho )

ive been a big fan of +hit for a while, throwing +8 hit gems into yellow slots on tanking gear; but im actually starting to dial it back a bit. i wouldnt want to roll out with straight 0 +hit, but im starting to lean a little more towards enduring talasites and elunes for yellow sockets, depending on the socket bonus.

theorycraft forums have an unfortunate tendency to recommend 100% one way or the other, which is fine, its just the nature of the beast. in the reality of the game, a healthy balance tends to be much better. if you have problems with fight control (arggo, conc blow, interrupts) due to missing, throw in a +hit gem or two and see how it works out for you. just because 4.6% is the cap to improvement doesnt need you need +4.6% to see the benefit. if your healers are sucking wind and you dont feel like you are having problems with missing, get some avoidance in there. if you are getting one shot, stam up.

btw... make sure you arent counting dodges, parries, and blocks as misses. totally different mechanic; only +weapon skill will reduce those. good luck getting weapon skill on anything but your weapon

 

Redd

Hit isn't that important right now because most bosses in TBC are putting out some hefty damage, and if you go out of your way to get hit(that is, getting it from anything except SSC neck, aldori defender, kings defender, maybe a ranged weapon) you're going to really notice it. Misdirect greatly reduces that freak miss-streak ruining an attempt on mobs that have aggro resets(if you have 2 hunters you have one for each Hydross transition, which is the worst case scenario basically)

 

Denik

In general I think +12 stam gems are the way to go on items for tanking, except where the item grants +dodge as a bonus, in those cases I try to match the socket color.

I keep a few pieces of gear in my backpack for clearing trash in KZ and in heroics where +hit is a significant stat. The 4 pieces I usually use are Breastplate of the Warbringer, Terrokar Tablet of Precision, Honor's call (Kings Defender hasnt dropped yet) and Royal Cloak of Arathi Kings. All of wich grant decent +hit and can be substitued for clearing trash where you really dont have to worry about keeping your +block above 25%. Its pretty easy to use these items and still keep above 490 defense to avoid crits.

The benefit of +hit will be noticed by your mages and locks when they dont have to hold back as much. The trash hits so hard on cloth in KZ, that you really do need some extra hit to get and hold aggro quick.

On boss fights, casters tend to slow down a bit, play it safe for the first few seconds before ramping up dps. So you can drop some of the +hit for those fights.

 

seraphem

I've taken the same strategy and have noticed an improvement in trash clearing after picking up some +hit gear. Letting the DPS open up earlier on trash makes for quicker clears.

 

◊ Kalman

Only accepted for spells; for melee attacks and melee specials, it's well known there's no minimum chance to miss.

 

• Arawethion

The marginal value of +hit to threat generation is nice, but it's not like being "un-miss-able" is some kind of priority. As a tank, definitely don't socket +hit over +stam, for example.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Kyrillian

I've found hit to be less important in TBC due to the addition of Misdirection. I currently will take +hit if it is incidental to a piece that is already an upgrade, but I don't really seek it out.

Of course should the need arise for more +hit gear I have a few pieces I can swap in. I currently run with 6 hit rating (go go wind trader's band!) and have not had agro issues on Maulgar, Gruul, or any of Karazhan. I have not yet seen Magtheridon or SSC.

 

stampy

Sorry, my mistake. I must be mixing up knowledge from when my main was a mage.