For those citing the 2300AP (1900AP with Idol) figures for Swipe being > Lacerate, has crit been factored into this?

As swipe threat scales directly with damage, and lacerate's threat is mostly inate (a 0.2 multiplier applied to the damage dealt) It seems like swipe would overtake lacerate in average TPS somewhat sooner than expected if crit's not accounted for in those figures.

I have done some figures for it and you can't say it's at 2000 AP or so because it's influenced in so many ways. I used that i'd call my average tanking scenario (with 35% crit and 15% mobarmor). With those stats the break even point is around 1900 AP - Idol of Brutality also factored in.

The rotation is actually what I use even when I have less rage available and it seems to work for me. Unfortunately I don't have the math to back it off myself and can't seem to find recent threads about it either.


Btw, did anyone on the PTR measure the new Mangle threat yet so we can compare it to the old Mangle? I know they said that Mangle threat should be effectively the same, but I doubt anyone of us would be surprised if they snuck a stealth nerf/buff/bug in there.

If Maul is 1000 threat and Lacerate is 430/530, why would you prioritize lacerate over maul?

Because Maul replaces your auto-attack. This means it does less effective threat (maul minus auto-attack) and it costs rage instead of generating it.

Your gear will factor in a lot here. I am a high armour/low avoidance bear. I always have rage in heroics and in raids. A high avoidance bear might dodge a string of attacks and deplete their rage rapidly.

For me when tanking with unlimited rage:
I spam Lacerate and Maul.
Hit Mangle as soon as the cooldown is done.

Limited rage:
Mangle and Maul for the initial aggro;
Then switch to Mangle and Lacerate for single targets, mangle/swipe for multiple targets, also using Mauls if I have the rage.

I really have no problems in dungeon settings. However what I would LOVE to have advice on are fights such as Nightbane. I simply REALLY struggle to control the skeletons. I can tank 1 without problems, but due to the heals being tossed about etc I find myself totally limited to tanking just 1 or 2 of the skeletons with one running about ont he other tank, one maybe on a healer, and one on the hunter who keeps attacking the wrong target =).

So what do other bears do for these situations? Tab cycle Mangle/maul/lacerate to each mob? Just try to hold at most 3 mobs and use the above Tab cycle with them? I found it very frustrating hehe. I think I do a great job tanking everything else (its not exactly difficult as a bear, lets be honest =) except fights like this where I feel it is out of my hands, but I have read people saying it is definately controllable, so any advice would be appreciated =).

Ran heroic slave pens again and did just fine. After going through it again, I realized that on the first trip, I handled the 1st defender pair pull fine and it was the second one at the top of the stairs that gave so much trouble (the one with the collaborator).

Anyway, thanks for all the advice. The wrath->rejuve->bark->bear seemed particularly useful.

I'd go further and say that I work by the principle that it is my job as a tank (I play a druid now, should update profile sometime) to not only hold aggro on everything I am supposed to, but to also provide enough threat generation for the DPS to push reasonably hard. Barring an odd streak of mob avoidance, there's really no reason to not allow the DPS to open full-out on just about every pull.

The people i play with are pushing 1000 dps easily, and normaly I can keep aggro from them on one mob.

But as soon as I have to generate aggro on multiply mobs, there is no way I can generate the threat needed. Then I have to choose, keep em of healer, or keep em of dps.

If your dps are pushing that high you don't really need to care much about their focus target. I would just bash the primary target once and build aggro on the other mobs. By the time the mobs gets out of the stun and in range of the dps - it should be dead already.

I assume we are still talking about heroics though.