Jugalub

Hey, I am pretty new to these forums but I was just wondering if anyone had tried something similar to this before with any successful results, or if there is any glaringly obvious reason for why it would not work. I decided against against doing the math until I had some feedback on whether others thought it could be viable or not. My idea was to build a caster group stacked towards providing as much damage modifiers as possible:

• Elemental Shaman - Provides 3% Hit and 3% Crit from Totem of Wrath, 1% Hit from Racial, and 100+ Spell Damage
• Moonkin - 5% Crit Aura
• Shadow Priest - Provide mana regen to the two above mana users to keep their dps sustainable
• Arcane/Frost Mage - Using a 40/0/21 build in order to provide as much crit damage modififers and to gain the extra spell damage from Mind Mastery. Yes the mages in my guild are all frost or arcane/frost atm.
• Arcane/Frost Mage - Same as above

In addition to this there would be a full frost mage in the raid provididing the Winters Chill debuff. This would result in a huge +18% crit in buffs and debuffs for the two mages, and with the 150% extra crit damage bonus the synergy doesn't need to be stated. This would result in the mages having around 43%-46% crit percentage, and with the crit damage modifiers and each mage stacking around 900-1050 spell damage a huge damage gain. This is ofc could also work for fire mages depending on what ou have to work with. Another tidbit is that Heroism could be used in Conjunction with Arcane Power, a trinket, and a destruction potion if one is handy for some good burst. Mana regen wouldn't even be an issue being arcane/frost and having a Shadow Priest. And as I understand from reading other topics on the forum here, Moonkins and Elemental Shamans can do good competitive sustainable damage in conjunction with a Shadow Priest.

Any comments?

 

koaschten

Doubt the shadowpriest can sustain without another shadow in the grp for longer than 4 minutes.
If i plug my kinda gimped shadowpriest twink with 700 +dmg into Eitrigg's DPS Spreadsheet i get a solo sustainability with pots and shadowfiend of roughly 2:30 .
If i add an equally geared shadowpriest to the group, the mana regain added will last me through more than 15 minutes.

 

Thelyna

If your shadow priest was well-geared (tailoring epics and level 70 blues/kara gear), you should be able to push 900 damage, which is a huge difference for sustainability.

 

Boevis

In all reality, if you wanted to max DPS, replace the Moonkin with another shadow priest and bump the mages up to 40 Arcane 21 Fire (1 point in Playing with Fire lol) for Arcane Blast spam. Situational, but you would potentially see over 1500 DPS from the mages.

Frost is next to worthless from everything I've read and seen, 3 frost mages vs 3 fire mages put fire ahead by 100 DPS each on gruul, spreadsheet says it's over 300 difference ... AB Spam is spreadsheeted at 200 above fire.

 

Xelopheris

i would have to go with two shadow priests, one affliction warlock, and two arcane mages. Huge mana return, curse of shadows, all specs that are easier to hitcap than anything else. 2/3 classes don't depend on crit so the mages can itemize themselves for it while the rest of the group gives them extra damage and infinite mana.

 

kaex

Personally, as a shadow priest with 900 unbuffed spelldamage, I hardly need anything more than a shadowfiend per 8 minute encounter, assuming I do a spell rotation of Keeping DoT's up and Mind Flaying in between (until 20% where I add MB+SWeath) so mana isn't really an issue with a decently geared shadow priest.

That aside, I'd love to have:

Affliction Warlock
Shadow Priest
Destro Lock
and 2 Fire Mages.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

I think a good question would be how many shadow priests in a group does it take to sustain a tier 5 mage spamming arcane blast with its 20% boost set bonus?

Could two shadow priests give enough longevity, or would you need 4?

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

 

heel

Arcane Blast costs about 2100 mana per 5 seconds (2500 with the bonus). Four Shadow priests should do the trick . . . assuming you know four Shadow priests who can sustain 2500 dps.

 

Lamaros

Geared shadow priests with tailoring should push 1100 +shadow.

I wouldn't put a warlock in a group, it's a complete waste. Only excuses would be maybe a felguard lock (esp with 2 piece t5) or destro. But we have lifetap and mages don't.

2 Shadow Priests, 1 Shaman, 2 Mages.

Of course. The shadow priests usually end up with healers for the mana regen...

 

heel

Back on topic, though, our "ideal caster" group is me, a Restoration shaman, and three deep Fire mages. With potions/tide/fiend and 1200 unbuffed +damage, I can keep my mana battery outputting the maximum for a very long time. Post patch, though, I think removing a mage for a second Shadow priest might be necessary - the hit we took to damage hurts our longevity a great deal, and being forced to spec Improved Mind Blast for high-damage rotations hurts it even more.

 

Darkchani

after testing a bit on Dr Boom with the tier 5 bonus and a 40arcane spec, i can confirm that it would be pretty silly :P

with a bit of latency, 760mp/1.65s is 2300mp/5... its alot :P

But so is the damage, with a flask(+70), oil(+42), tier5 4pieces (spamming AB, its almost always up), AI, BoK, MoTW, 4/5 tier 5, WoA and similar gear in the rest of the slots, we're talking of about 1300 arcane spell damage.

With CoS and Misery, we're looking at average hits of 2300. every 1.65s, with a 35% crit. DPS of 1760... fun stuff with AP too

Spellhit not being a concern, a resto shaman would most likely be much better than an elemental one, for mana tide and the higher mana spring (and to add ideal, a shaman with 2pieces ele(+20spelldmg), 2pieces tier 4 resto(+3mp/2) and 4pieces tier 3(+25% on mana spring totem) heh.)

Even then, factoring mana tide giving back 2400mp every 300s (40mp/5), mana spring of 57.5mp/5, BoW 49mp/5, JoW of 112mp/5, spirit regen of 115mp/5, that's still a deficit of 1925mp/5 to be filled by shadow priests... ginvite for a priest who can pull that much...
VT is 5% of the priest's dps... even 4 shadow priests doing 1200dps wouldnt be enough :/


Within reach of sustainability, 3 fire mage 1 elemental shaman 1 shadow priest would be way up there in my book. I dont think the itemization is quite there to make a moonkin viable, and most of all, his 5% aura to 3.5ppl(shadowpriests arent real ppl... when it comes to crit) + his dps vs the dps of a deep fire mage ? questionnable.

 

Tempestra

No one can sustain a mage doing full-out AB spam.

Our guild does a "caster group of death"

2 fire mages, 33/28 (me) and 11/47/3. 2 elemental shaman (double totem of wrath, tranq air + wrath of air). 1 shadow priest.

I can sustain 1k+ dps on a mag fight, no problem.

Now that we're having two more shadowpriests join the fray, we'll probably share the love and do two groups of:

1x shadowpriest 1x elemental + 3 casters (mages/locks)

And then give the third shadowpriest to extra paladins while SA+VT is still broken.

 

DarKNecross

1 Fire Mage + Atiesh Aura
1 Fire Mage + Atiesh Aura
1 Elemental Shaman
1 Shadowpriest
1 Balance Druid

In Total, the group gets roughly:
+10.53% Spellcrit
+4% Spellhit
+~300mp5
+121 Spelldamage

((Assuming Alliance and Draenei Aura))

 

Kegsta

Got our first magtheradon kill today, was in a pretty hot group.

Ele Shammy - ToW, Tranquil Air, Tremor, FR Totem
Ele Shammy - ToW, WoA (+121), Tremor, Mana Spring
Boomkin - 5% crit
2x Fire Mages

It was pretty awsome, I was fully potted and flasked up and was at +1240 damage and 48% crit, we pull the channelers together 2 at a time, when my trinket was up i was doing 4k CL crits, double heroism is also very hot.

 

Yes

Ugh, it is always:

Spriest 1000+ dps
Ele Shaman
2x 10/3/44+ fire mages.
Oomkin to innervate other druids/priests

Giving Spriest 5% crit will increase his dps 2~%

Giving shaman 5% crit will increase dps by 5%
Same thing for two mages 5%

So crit aura gives roughly 175 dps, so all the moonkin needs to do is be 150 dps within a fire mage ( to account for imp scorch refreshing dps loss, buffing ai, making water ^^). As a side gain one gains an innervate on another priest/druid. Mana, of course, is not a problem.

 

Northerner

We run a Spriest, EleSham, Mage, Mage, Destro Lock combination quite often and with great success. At this point though it's pretty much a given that we'll need a spriest in with our mages (10/48/3 specs) and whichever elemental shaman are around. I refuse to use a moonkin and I'm not sure I'm sold on the synergy there anyhow (we don't have one so it's moot I suppose).

There is definitely a need to make caster packs just like melee packs for optimal dps. At this point I'm even gearing around assumed totem for the 3% hit and without question I am in a world of hurt manawise if I cannot get a shadowpriest for a long fight. On the downside though, it makes evaluating performance a nightmare with so many people varying so greatly depending on what group buffs they are getting.

 

◊ Nfariessence

Arcane Mages are the king of dps, if they have unlimited mana (20 Arcane mages on Vael? lol). Other than that, there is really no conceivable group makeup that can keep an Arcane going full tilt for greater than 3-4 minutes. And after that they're relegated to normal dps or even worse, wanding. The problem with grouping up mages is that they don't *add* any kind of synergy to the group (without the addition of an Atiesh of course). They don't have an aura, they don't have a debuff to help with other damage, other than WC or Imp Scorch which doesn't require them to be in a group with other mages. Those 2 debuffs are 'low mana' maintenance, so adding to their mana supply via a SPriest really doesn't help anyone but the mage.

So unless you're looking at an extreme burn situation, mages with a SPriest are usually just able to skip out on the mana pots. A better solution are elemental shaman, moonkin druid, and any warlock that uses Shadow Bolt as a staple and has Imp. SB. The shaman and moonkin can do excellent DPS provided they get some mana help, and they buff the rest of the people in their group. The warlocks get to sponge off of both VT -and- VE for mana efficiency, and it allows them to spam Shadowbolt instead of replenishing mana via Drain Life. The increased SB spammage = more Shadow Vulnerability uptime from Imp SB = 20% more damage for the SPriest = more mana for the party = more damage, etc. This is particularly true of deep Destruction warlocks who would exhibit close to 30% crit in that group makeup and decent gear, and with 1100ish +damage would be hitting for 2.4k every time and critting for an easy 5k every 7.5ish seconds.

Also, arcane mages using AB are pretty much wasting the 3% hit from the elemental shaman, as it's almost hard to not get 6% crit from good gear/enchants.

 

Yes

Actually, without 2/5 tier 5, an AB spamming mage will do only 150~ more dps then a fire mage (1288 vs 1130~) given .4s latency (very reasonable). No resonable amount of mana regen methods can sustain the 12k mana per minute ab uses, anyway.

The reason why people do not put locks into spriest groups (generally) is that no matter what, tapping is an easy way to get mana (ie, tap during being thrown on gruul, tap during mag knockback, tap during hydross repositioning for absolutely NO dps loss)

 

dukes

We just about always have warlocks in shadow priest groups (run with 2 spriest groups normally, both dps rather than healing although it depends on fight). The amount of healing the warlocks take is quite a strain on mana, but mostly on global cooldown and healer focus. We still prioritise mages into spriest groups though generally - all our mages are deep fire (45+) so they need the mana regen, especially on fights like Morogrim with all the AoE going down.

I also agree with the fact adding mages to a dps group doesn't really add anything. It's the same as rogues in melee groups - they benefit a lot from the buffs thrown out, but they don't really contribute anything directly.

 

doogless

For warlocks, it depends on their spec. An affliction warlock is really very self-sufficient and doesn't really need a shadow priest, but a 0/21/40 destruction warlock really does need the mana and health stream from a shadow priest to reach their max level of effectiveness.

 

Yes

Every one of our locks is affliction (Because it has simply proven to do more raid dps while still keeping bloodpact, sort of healing themselves with siphon/3piece shadowweave, and an occasional pet tap).

The point of these uber groups is to make the pure dps classes to do dps, you wouldn't want to have a warrior fdruid shaman marks / beastiality hunter (At least I think not!) group.

 

• GokieKS

Come again? o.O

As a warlock, I recognize that because I'm more self-sufficient than just about every other class out there, and that because the alternative for warlocks (running OOM and having to Dark Pact/Life Tap/Drain Life) is still quite a lot better than the alternative for, say, mages (running OOM and having to wand), mages get a seemingly more obvious benefit from being in a Spriest group. Whether that actually leads to better raid DPS though, I'm not so sure - there's usually a lot of other factors at work that's makes it hard to compare. For example, if an elemental shaman is present (in which case you would want to put him/her in a Spriest group), the WoA totem's +hit is more useful for warlocks who don't get innate +hit on any Destruction spells (which form the largest single part of a warlock's DPS, even the heavy Affliction spec ones), while the +crit is more useful for mages.

 

Yes

Oh, sorry, it's a running joke, I even mistyped that. Ha.


What I do personally is drop 3% hit so I am no longer at max hit. Hence I gain the full 6% benefit when an ele shaman is present.

 

tedv

It's not quite that bad, but it's pretty close. To sustain a mage spamming arcane blast, even with evocation, mana gems, mana potions, and mage armor, they'll need an extra 1700 m/5 at a minimum:

Arcane Blast Cost: -2100 m/5
Blessing of Wisdom: 50 m/5
Spirit Regen Rate (not casting): 220 m/5
Mage Armor Regen: 30% * 220 m/5 = 66 m/5
Evocation: 220 m/5 * 1600% * 8/5 = 5632 mana every 8 minutes = 59 m/5 (more with a spirit staff)
Mana Gems + Potions: ~1000 (gem) + ~2400 (potion) mana each every 2 minutes = 142 m/5
Top end Mana: 10k mana to deplete in 10 minutes = 83 m/5 acceptable loss

This adds to a net loss of: -2100 + 50 + 66 + 59 + 142 + 83 = -1700 m/5.

So you need shadow priests to provide a total of 1700 m/5. That's 425 m/5 from each of 5 shadow priests, requiring 1700 DPS from each priest. With no consumables and around +1100 spell damage (and curse of shadows), a shadow priest will provide the group with around 270 m/5. Even with 61 points in shadow, a priest still needs 2400 +damage to output 425 m/5.

My prefered caster group is Shadow Priest, Elemental Shaman, Mage x3 for threat sensitive fights and Shadow Priest x2, Elemental Shaman, Mage x2 for threat insensitive fights. (When threat is an issue, it's better to spread out the priest to distribute the increased threat load across the entire raid, even if the raid regenerates less mana overall from that setup.)

 

Zong

Mana Tide is amazing for shadow priests, coupled with wrath of air. Consider a resto shaman, maybe?