Windchilla

Even if you despise PvP, forming a 5v5 and getting min-games every week should be a priority if you're interested in serious Feral DPS. The time it takes to get most items in raid settings will likely end up taking much longer than the investment of an arena team.

 

osirisunnefer

Sorry, I should have made it clear that it was stated at BlizzCon that Season 3 weapons will have a rating requirement in order to purchase them (rumoured to > 1900). They said this is to prevent raiders from ignoring armour and just saving up for weapons.

With no PvE equivilent to the S2 Maul, I then deduced that one would become available in Zul'Aman (as well as it being the natural progression after Kara where our last PvE dps weapon is, as Sadris stated).

 

dukes

I still haven't seen it confirmed, but apparently the Sunwell will be a 25 man instance following on from current progression (~6 bosses). It's always possible they'll put some stuff in there, but that might just annoy a lot of people more than it helps, as there still aren't that many guilds with illidan dead.

 

HaklePrime

I'm surprised there hasn't been more of an outcry to change [Pillar of Ferocity], similar to how we got [Wildfury Greatstaff] changed to something a bit more useful than it's initial stat-allocation.

I suppose the lack of forum posts are due to the number of druids actually in Hyjal/BT. Wouldn't hurt to create a suggestion post.

However, this won't change our fundamental flaws, but I'll take bones where I can.

 

Shag

Change the strength to agility in the pillar and then we have something significant.

 

Krag

Changing the strength to agility would make it a tanking upgrade over wildfury, but it still wouldn't make it a great dps staff by any means.

 

dukes

I think part of the reason for the Pillar not having had a call for change is that it's not clear exactly what it's supposed to be. Wildfury was clearly supposed to be a tanking staff from the outset. The Pillar is primarily tanking, but then has that significant amount of iPoints spent on Str, which is clearly not a tanking stat. It's a good hybrid staff, but due to weapons being switchable in combat, it's just one of few slots where a hybrid item is pretty close to useless. The only reason it's a reasonable sidegrade/slight upgrade from the Wildfury/Terestians staffs in tanking and DPS terms is because of its significant ilvl advantage.

If they were to switch the Pillar to either of tanking or DPS roles purely, I think a few druids would be rather put out. I should think there's a fair few druids with it now, and of those some took it for DPS and some for tanking. The lack of having a second PvE weapon that we can use for either tanking or dps which would give clarity as to which role the Pillar should be performing means that it's difficult to switch it now.

Due to the lack of other feral weapons in endgame, they could just swap the str to agi (as already mentioned). This would make it a clear upgrade over any other tanking weapon, and for DPS terms makes it almost comparable with the S2 (47 agi/826 AP against 42 str, 18 hit, 42 crit, ~750 ap iirc, which makes it just the hit being the gap between the two).

 

Windchilla

To make it a DPS weapon they'd really need to get rid of a gigantic chunk of that Stamina. As for making it a tanking weapon, I'd rather see it be something different that Wildfury, instead of simply a scaling upgrade; maybe give it more armour and keep the Stamina to give us an option between a mitigation/stamina staff and an avoidance staff.

Although we've been clearing Hyjal for weeks, we've not had it drop, so I still don't know how I feel about the weapon and when or if I'd use it outside of PvP.

 

Shag

Changing tack a second here.

I spend most of my time MTing or OTing but I do get a fair amount of opportunity to dps. What I struggle with on certain fights is managing the hate I am generating. Cower is just so insufficient. I find myself well in advance on the threatlist ahead of other melee. The only thing I can do is just autoattack or drop out to toss a heal or two and watch while the Rogues go nuts.

Anyone else struggling with this or is simply the nature of certain fights?

 

Septus

Is there a primer anywhere on proper use of powershifting? At a glance, it seems like I just want to shift in and out any time I'm at less than 20 or so energy, but it's also based on the timing of energy ticks right?

 

Liar

Shag, it might be a daft question but are you getting BoS?

 

Ryjaek

EJ- Powershifting

I think the change of how the energy regeneration works may be nerfing the benefits of powershifting.

 

dukes

Step 1: Get an energy tick mod. I use the one built in to Pitbull's energy bar, but theres plenty of alternatives (Gonffbar manages combo points/energy tick in a separate bar, for instance).

Step 2: Watch for when you're on 22-25 energy (or when you're soon to be, like after one shred you're on 50, then you do two more and you'll be on 44) and know that when the tick mod ticks, you'll be in the range for a shred _and_ be left on low energy.

Step 3: Use the knowledge that you're about to be on 0-5 energy to shift after a shred, and then back again. This should give you a straight profit of 35-40 energy, without losing anything but a white hit. If you practice this a lot, you can then move on to waiting for a fraction of a second to make sure your special didn't get dodged before you did the shift (if you think you can react that quickly and not waste a tick). If you screw up slightly, you'll still come out of it with a 15-20 energy net gain, which will more than make up for the white hit you lose in shifting. It's pretty easy to do, just takes a while getting used to to get the maximum benefit out of it.

As to the stuff about energy regen changing, if you time it right you should still be gaining 30+ energy. It reduces the effectiveness of it slightly, but won't remove all gains (and it'll certainly still be worth doing, if the energy regen stays the same).



Shag: If you're having threat problems then either you don't have salv, or your tank sucks. Pulling 1200-1400 dps (depending on fight) I just about creep up to equal/possibility of ripping while not using BoS. With BoS I can't even get close.

 

Grizlock

I don't think you even need an energy tick mod for anything but opening attacks.

With powershifting you just spam shred, as soon as you tick it will land and you can immediately hit cat form twice (or use a fancy macro) and be back in cat form with 60 energy. Doubtful that it will be worth using, and thus mastering, since it is being 'nerfed' next patch.

Also, I had threat problems for a bit, but once our tank got a new weapon and perfected technique I have yet to pull hate going all out with unleashed rage and full pally blessings. I still can't break 1000 dps and my dps increase seems to be slowing so maybe later in the raid game it becomes an issue.

 

Septus

This still worries me, this point was unanswered:
And I think my staff skill is still pretty low, I don't know if getting in a staff hit is important to making shifting worthwhile or not.

 

dukes

2pc malorne is nice, but the proc chance is ~4%. By shifting you therefore have a 4% chance to lose 20 energy, totaling 1 energy per shift equivalent. Still worth shifting.

AP > Passive haste even with 2pc malorne. The proc is only 4%, which means haste just isn't worth it in comparison to stacking AP (considering 3% haste is the equivalent of 30 strength or 30 agility, which is 1.3% crit/33 ap or a straight ~80 ap.

It's also still worth "mastering" - as I said in the last post, if you time it right you should still be gaining 30 energy if they leave the system as it is. 30 energy is certainly nothing to be sniffed at.

AFAIK it isn't worth not shifting because you think you'll miss a staff/mace hit. The energy gain far outweighs any white hits you do.

As an example of how much energy you can expect to gain if you just use it at good points (i.e. generally below 4 energy is what I was aiming at) rather than in a cycle or with a less direct rule (below 10, for example, which will gain you a lot of energy total but is more mana intensive):
dukes - WWS

560 energy gained from each of furor and 2t4. The fight is fairly fragmented in terms of DPS too, as there's a lot of AoE effects that you have to move out of/around, but it's the best example I have of powershifting atm (still working on perfecting it, few fights where I actually DPS).

 

HaklePrime

Eh, that was quoted from one of my posts I believe, immediately after I got my 2pc T4. I wouldn't quote it as a 'rule' of PSing, per se. My views have only slightly changed, as I still powershift like mad, and only occasionally waste a Malorne proc.

As for improving your weapon skills, it's absolutely worth it. Why wouldn't you take the opportunity for a free white hit while you're improving your kitty DPS/CP Cycle?

 

◊ Neone

Some question's on Cat From ring choices

[Garona's Signet Ring]
[Ancestral Ring of Conquest]
[Shapeshifter's Signet]
[A'dal's Command]

Initially I though Garona+Conquest, but then I read on Wowhead some unconfirmed posting on feral combat skill adding haste.... and now I have this quandry.

Thanks for the advice.

 

Windchilla

I don't see myself ever using Shapeshifter's Signet, I really don't like the itemization. Currently I'm using ancestor and a'dal or hyjal.

 

Boevis

Garona's + Conquest is indeed the best combo overall if you need all the hit from Garona's. If you only need part of the hit from Garona's, then Adal's is better.

Personally though, I use Shapeshifters and Conquest simply because I hate seeing misses/dodges. I'm well aware this isn't the best combo for strait DPS, but I also OT quite a bit, and the skill from Shapeshifters helps a hell of a lot.

 

Valerian

With the theorycrafting going on in

[Rogue/Warrior] Weapon Skill Adjustment Discussion

Shapeshifters may be quite a good piece that allows you to move hit off some other pieces of gear, at least for boss fights.

 

dukes

I've been using 5.14% hit with the Shapeshifters for the past 2 weeks and have found that my miss rate is less than 1% over the whole period (on fights which I DPS). It's a good item to use if you are significantly below the hit rating. I'm thinking about switching it back out for the Band of Eternity (which is what I was using) as the belt of deep shadow plan finally dropped yesterday (crafted about 5 minutes after the raid finished with 2x10 agi gems in, having materials in the bank ready ftw).

 

Windchilla

For me, once my AP and crit numbers starting rising into the more absurd ranges, I found that I valued hit less than formerly. I've been assigning hit a solid value, regardless of range from cap ever since my AP unbuffed reached around 3k. It's still an important stat, but when going over my WWS logs and comparing 0 hit fights with capped hit/shapeshifter signet fights, I didn't find substantial enough evidence to support either. Misses don't bug me that much, and dodge is the only other avoidance that we have to contend with in terms of skill rating; if dodges bother you, defiantly go with what you're most comfortable with; but I generally shoot for straight DPS maximization.

 

Bag

Although I will admit I havn't read most of this thread, just wanted to interject a couple of things.

While working on Archimonde, I had to sub out my poison vial for a pvp trinket, and the hit loss was VERY obvious. I've been feral since beta, and hit has always been a pretty big debate. Right now, I've settled at 8% hit with about 3100 ap and 39% crit self-buffed and it's been by far the best for dps. I would not drop below 7%, because not building up 5 points before another rip/mangle combination can screw up a whole dps rotation. Prior to t5, I was often topping dms, but, as with level 60 progression, I've dropped down to around 5th on dms because of the terrible scaling and itemization at the endgame level again. I really hope we get some Hyjal trash drops or new 10-man drops, because the stark lack of stats on leather in BT and Hyjal coupled with the complete lack of any feral dps weapons outside of pvp and karazhan spells a bleak dps outlook.

Also, on that ring question, I use the Garona and the Ancestral rings. It is the best combination from those choices by far.

 

Windchilla

I'm interested in seeing some WWS logs of top-geared cats who do cap hit, looking to compare the various merits of cap vs non.