I wanted to keep the above post relatively clean, but I'm getting my info for weapon skill calculations from: Research:Effects of Weapon Skill - WoWWiki, the Warcraft wiki

For the 2nd column, for attacks 0-10 weapon skill below defense, I'm using 1/2 the value of the 1st column.

Actually I was interested in this after Dukes posted some logs of him using the ring and 5.14% hit and I've since dropped the amount of +hit I was using to around 98 hit rating and I haven't experienced any misses so far. This is with a chance to hit hit deficit greater than the 2% 5 weapon skill is supposed to give you, meaning unless I am extremely lucky shapeshifter's signet is by far the best ring you could possibly equip. I'm interested to see exactly how low we could take our hit rating while using this ring.
Some example logs at 6.21% chance to hit.
Gorefiend
Naj'entus
Essence of Anger

I know the minimum is above 78 hit rating since that's what I have with shadow resistance gear on:
Mother Shahraz

So if I was to take a wild guess based on mine and Dukes' logs I'm guessing 5% to hit and 5 feral skill would give you no misses, and shapeshifter's signet is currently irreplaceable.

I've been interested in the discussion of FCR. I've used Emmeralds list almost as a bible which from reading this probably should look at it more as a sketchy guidline. If it is true that 5 combat skill from Shapeshifters can make such a substaintal difference how much have those of us who use Emmeralds list underestimated items like Clefthoof Leggings or even Flesh Handler's Gauntlets.

For example I've been looking to replace my Clefthoof leggings with T4 legs for DPS but from the information provided in this thread about FCR it seems they might not be worth getting for DPS because of the FCR and hit i'd be loosing.

I'd really like to see more information on the results and value of FCR.

Well here's the thing about weapon skill, and as it relates to your Clefthoof Hide Leggings. You need +5 weapon skill. +4 weapon skill simply won't cut it for what we're trying to accomplish: which is to bring a level 73 "organge con" boss mob down to an equivalent level 72 "yellow con" mob.

When converting rating into skill, the game likes to round down to the nearest integer. So your 18 weapon skill rating, ends up being rounded down to +4 weapon skill. If you only managed to get 2 more rating, then you would have hit +5 skill, and hit a sweet spot where the Boss's defenses are calculated using a more favorable formula.

Once you get +5 weapon skill (20 rating), Feral Weapon Skill no longer becomes the most attractive stat to go for. It's still a powerful stat, but AGI and STR are better at that point (you can confirm this yourself if you trust Tangydyn's dps calculator - just plug in your stats with and without 20 rating and swee what happens to the stat weightings)

Instead of the Clefthoof Hide Leggings, you could try to get the Shattrath Leggings. However, I still think that the ring is the most convenient place to get your weapon skill. Using either the Clefthoof Hide Legs, Shattrath Legs, or Flesh Handler's Gauntlets makes it more difficult for you to get tier set bonuses.

I'm not saying to dump your Clefthoof Hide Leggings, I'm just recommending that you pick up 2 more raiting points to pass that threshold.

I did some testing.
Altho I did it in bear form with lacerate and melee hitting. Is the bear +hit mechanics any different from the cat hit? I assumed in this test that it is not.

I did 2 tests, both with the shapeshifter signet. The mob I hit is Reth'hedron the Subduer (lvl 73 elite in Nagrand)

Test 1: 91 hit rating (5.77% hit).




Test 2: 95 hit rating (6.02% hit).




This leads me to believe that we need 6% hit + the [Shapeshifter's Signet]

I had no misses either with 93 hit rating and the Shapeshifter's, over the course of an entire Tidewalker kill, FWIW:

Peachi - WWS

94 rating is less than 6% hit. Not by much, but it's there.

I picked up [Boots of Effortless Striking] tonight as a possible replacement for [Zierhut's Lost Treads]...thing is, I don't know if it's really an upgrade... =P

PS - I was the only person that wanted them, I wouldn't have taken them otherwise since I saw tham as very close to the ones I have.

Aye, that's my point. Miss recorded with sub 6% and I've yet to see a miss recorded with 6%.

For DPS, yes. Effortless Striking are my boots of choice for DPS over [Boots of Natural Grace] since I don't need the Hit anymore, the extra Sta also helps for the many many AoE's out there (ps. screw najentus)

Being that I can't open any of the spreadsheets, could someone quickly tell me how +4 all stats compares to +2 weapon damage for ring enchants?

A single miss recorded doesn't necessarily mean anything, does it? Forgive my ignorance, but are we sure melee hit isn't capped? (As a melee class, I should know these things...) spell hit is capped at 1% by my knowledge.

There is a great deal of evidence suggesting that the physical miss rate can be pushed to zero. I know on my Hunter pre-TBC I raided with 9% (or more) hit for months and months without recording a miss that wasn't attributed to some crazy debuff (hello, C'Thun trash).

Going back a week and a bit here, sorry about that. I wanted to say that my independently developed spreadsheet confirms pretty much the same thing. It's pretty hard to stack crit to the point were str > agi, though not technically impossible. It's not a problem to worry about, honestly.

P.S. If anyone's interested in my spreadsheet I'd be happy to post it. haven't worked out a sensible, extensible system for integrating procs yet, but I'm pretty sure the mechanics are solid. (Peer review well probably find errors somewhere)

alright, good to know :-) months is pretty strong evidence if others have had similar experiences.

Hey all,

I see lots of questions where people ask if they should get more crit or more AP, and others answer that this is different per person, per gear combination. I see referrals to some kind of spreadsheet or system where you can see what is best for you personally. So my question, can someone link me the 'system' please? So I can find out how to gem my gear, where str > agi and agi > str, etc. I would be very happy .

Btw, unbuffed I have approximately 2800 AP and 40% crit. I have a feeling I should get rid of some crit and get more base AP, but gemming with 8 AGI feels so much better then gemming with +8 STR somehow...
Thanks in advance!
Cheers,

Tublade

By my spreadsheet you're not all that close yet to the point where str > agi, and if you're a raider, you should probably be thinking in terms of raid buffed stats in which case it's quite difficult to get there, even if you actively try, since many raid buffs increase attack power, but not many increase crit chance. I just stack crit to my hearts content, and I never seem to get close to the barrier, so I wouldn't worry about it. I would give you a link to someplace you could check this stuff, but I developed my own spreadsheet, so I don't have a link for you :-(

edit: It should be noted though that my spreadsheet has not had peer review. it is entirely my own creation... much as I like my little creation, take it with a grain of salt till you get more evidence.

Thanks for the info, I understand this spreadsheet at least .

Tublade

+2 weapon damage is better unless you have Kings.

I'd go with 4 Stats over 2 Weapondamage if you have the reputation. They are pretty equal in terms of cat form dps - though 4 stats is way better if you are in bear and also provides stamina.

I don't have the reputation, but I was wondering if I should hold off another 3-4 weeks for the rest of it (much less if 2.2 ever hits with rep from trash) or just go grind consortium rep. My dps rings aren't used for tanking so I guess I'll just do the 2 damage now and live with it until better rings come out, if ever. Thanks for the info

You really can stop signing your posts. We know who you are.