Wouldn't that be the same, to a lesser extent, to shadow priests, locks (afflic and non) and the various types of mages? Overlapping gear options, with clear-cut winners for each, seems to have worked out fine there. One subdivision may have a use for crit and hit, others may not.

(Yes, shadow priests barely scale, yadda yadda)

I agree with the loot, we need a way of reducing the amount of shards made each run.

Another way of letting us scale would be a conversion of Intellect to Attack Power, not quite a mechanic's change but something close to the core design of druids.
It would give us an extra stat for us to gain damage from like rogues are getting, but even then it would only effect our set items.

I remember bringing up changing HotW to effect AP not strength in the original massive druid thread, its still needed especially with all of our non-set items being rogue loot itemised with AP.

I'd like to see the math behind this real quick, if you don't mind.

I parse my own hit rate using Recount. I found that I never missed with 5.77 hit and Shapeshifter's Signet, and miss a bit (fights aren't long enough to get an accurate miss rate) with 5.33 hit and Shapeshifter's. It's probably more like 5.6% hit required if one is wearing the Signet.

Have a look in this thread, its long but worth it to understand how they got there.

As Cluey posted, the math and parsings were all done in the rogue/warrior weapon skill discussion thread.

Summary the miss chance is:

If the difference between the Mob's defense skill and your weapon skill is less than or equal to 10:

5% + (Defender_Defense_Skill - Attacker_Weapon_Skill)*0.1%

If the difference between the Mob's defense skill and your weapon skill is greater than 10

7% + (Defender_Defense_Skill - Attacker_Weapon_Skill - 10)*0.4%

I have problem with identification what is the "normal damage" in feral skills description.
For example, Mangle deals 160% Normal damage plus 264.
Can anyone tell me what "normal damage" is, or how to calculate it ?

thank you in advance.

Simply changing HotW to work as 20% more AP would be the equivalent to giving us properly itemized gear (though it would add a bit of extra AP via BoM, BS etc). I dont see how this would be over the top in any way.


Its the normal damage you deal in a regular hit. For cats thats the base which is somewhere around 55 (55.4 sticks out in my mind but Im not certain) + AP/14 (this being because we have a 1 sec attack speed so 14 AP per DPS means 14 AP per extra point of damage per hit).

Character screen -> melee section -> normal hit damage (should be green due to the 1.1x naturalist multiplier, assuming you have it). Make sure you're in the correct form or else you'll come out with some strange results. Note that this is before all armour modifiers, so it will likely be less in reality than that calculated from "pure" tooltip damage.

Is the char screen value the appropriate one to use if you have naturalist? I had thought that naturalist increased the constant portion of mangle and shred as well.

Isn't it only Rip that gets double benefit from multipliers? I thought other attacks only worked as the tooltips state.

I think Rip doesn't get double the multiplier, the Tooltip is just wrong. Either way, the "second naturalist" would only apply to the base damage, not the scaling part.

It's the former I believe, though 40 damage would be hard to notice.

Hmmm. Changing HotW to AP would also boost the FAP on weapons by 20%. Which may or may not be a good idea. I tend to side with not. Of course they could reduce the FAP scaling to account for that. In general having our special damage scale as if we're using a 1H weapon in both cat and bear is probably what they intent. Our auto attack damage is still the part that suffers, due to a lack of any dual wield or haste mechanics, which means haste isn't an effective stat for us. That said, the implementation of HotW in cat is pretty much incompatible with the way they itemise general melee leather so they should do something or there'll continue to be an issue.

I'm terribly sorry if this was discussed or answered elsewhere, the thread is just too big and I tried a search.

Basically I've been in a state of semi-arguement with our other melee for a while now. The discussion is about whether I, as a feral druid, should be in the melee group if we have 1 Enhancement Shaman, 1 or 2 warriors and 2 or 3 rogues. Some people tell me I should not be, and I usually get "bumped out", because Windfury is such a great DPS to a Rogue. However, I reason that it is not greater than the DPS which comes from me getting Unleashed Rage and Str of Earth, and also giving the group 5 crit.

The situation is simple really, and so is my question.

Group:
Enhancement Shaman
Warrior
Rogue/Warrior
Rogue
Rogue

Would swapping a rogue out, and a feral druid in, increase or decrease overal raid DPS?
Is the DPS increase that a Rogue gets from WF bigger than the DPS increase I get from Unleashed Rage plus adding Leader of the Pack to Melee?

My instinct tells me I need to be in that group for maximum DPS, but others disagree and my Theorycrafting Skills are not so great as to calculate this myself. Mind that this is at an early T6-raid level situation, so halfway through BT, Hyjal Cleared.

I'm fairly sure it's been covered several times that a rogue would be better for the WF buff - since it's so retardedly good for any class with a melee-weapon.

Sorry, but in dps terms they are correct not you. Even more so if that is a Fury Warrior in the group.

I arrange the groups often for our raids and I only get a place in the Enh Shaman melee group if there are no more Rogues/DPS Warr melee to go in it. Get them to put you into the MT group instead - you will improve their threat a lot with your crit aura and for most fights any Shaman in the MT group would be dropping GoA which helps you a lot more than sitting in a group with a WF totem down.

Other bonuses of being the in the MT group include Battleshout and Commanding Shout in most circumstances. I personally enjoy being in the hunter group.

2 hunters, a resto shaman and a misc cloth dps class usually round out our 'leftovers' group. This is actually quite advantageous; at least one hutner will be beast spec, and with no filthy melee weapon wielding classes in the group, GoA is out, as is SoE.

I will continue to pine for Unleashed Rage though.

I heard with the new patch there will be some changes to how we can create macros for shifting out of feral forms. Can someone shed more light on this? And perhaps provide some macros?

From the Blizzard's UI and Macros forum it says that /cancelform will happen immediately (like /dismount) however, this is in the changes that are coming up in 2.3 not the current patch.

The difference you need to consider is whether the person you displace could still get into a semi-melee group (like the tank group). Generally if the rogue is able to get into the tank group while the tank uses BS, and you give that group windfury + SoE then the difference for the affected rogue will be fairly marginal (Unleashed Rage + talents for totems/BS) while for the melee group they all gain LoTP and on top of that you gain UR (and talent effects), which is of more benefit for a druid than any other class (stupid AP value in the first place). It's pretty comparable when you look at it that way.

If it's a warrior you're displacing, then it's more swung towards his favour (rage generation based on scaling effects).

Of course, if you're on a threat-limited encounter then it's actually more benefit you being in the tank group as you're giving the tank LoTP which is more threat, letting the main melee group do more damage overall.

You need to consider the whole situation really. Group setups for ferals is often guild, fight and gear dependant.

Is/Are the warrior(s) DW-fury or not?