What fights should I really be looking at to have a decent gauge of dps? I see you guys all saying you do such-and-such sustained dps, but I just don't really get a chance to dps in a sustained manner at all. We're working on Kael - so for example:-
Lurker - I dps Lurker then tank the melee adds - not sustained dps
Hydross - I dps Hydross then tank nature/frost adds - not sustained dps
Morogrim - I dps Morogrim then help to gather up adds - not sustained dps
Leo - probably the only fight where I actually get to dps
FLK - usually tanking an add then dps - not sustained dps
Vashj - tank the Naga as they run in, dps Vashj in phase 1 & 3 - not sustained dps
Al'ar - phase 1 tanking then ember tanking in phase 2 - no dps at all
VR - Yes I get to dps but his high armour and immune to rip means low dps
Solarian - dps Solarian then pick up the agents when they spawn in bear form - not sustained dps
Kael - obviously not sustained dps.
We don't really run Mag/Gruuls any more.
Will I start to see a change to this in BT/MH? I mean I don't mind much really, I feel pretty useful, but it's tricky to look at a WWS where I maybe did 500dps on a typical dps/add tank fight and actually see much value in that.
Same thing here, I just don't go all out dps ever. I am always tanking as you listed above, the only boss i can recall going all out dps is Leo, and may be VR if we have three warrior tanks on.
Ah, this means I'm really going to need to get an energy tick watch mod I suppose... I always carry mana pots as well as health pots but I admit I tend to forget my healthstones even when I'm carrying them. I have them all on the hotbar too.
Don't feel bad Farstrider I still need to finish my LC rep as well, figured I'd do it in heroic Sethekk (which is easy) and have a chance at that cool mount every run. I run with 120'ish hit rating currently in DPS gear though so I'm over the 7% mark without it. I really can't wait till I can start picking up T5 so I can re-enchant and socket T4 for DPS... The Kara epics just aren't as good for the most part.
Same thing here, I just don't go all out dps ever. I am always tanking as you listed above, the only boss i can recall going all out dps is Leo, and may be VR if we have three warrior tanks on.
I noticed a huge change in my role during a raid, from TK/SSC to BT/Hyjal. Prior to BT & Hyjal I was almost always some sort of dual-role during fights, either tanking then moving to DPS (Karathress, Magtheridon) or switching between the two multiple times (Hydross, Lurker, Leo etc). I geared and gemmed/enchanted accordingly and had numerous different gear setups depending on the fight.
Now in BT/Hyjal it seems a lot more clear-cut, I'm either a bear or a cat, haven't encountered a single fight yet where I switch out like I did pre-T6. (RoS feels more like three fights to me, and I wear cat gear, but I guess that could count.) I suppose it makes life easier, but also a bit more boring :P Still, it's a nice way to get some 'proper' DPS time in on fights like Teron and Naj'entus, with none of that pesky bear stuff getting in the way.
FCSR seems to be a big thing to give up, particularly when having so many attacks dodged, I just don't know if I can actually handle that grind to exalted LC. In fact, I do know, and I can't.
I'm working on my LC rep as well and it indeed seems endless - actually it already seemed endless to get to Revered for the epic flight form (best thing you can get in the game by the way). However there's a nice way to do it quickly, even though it's quite unrewarding except in terms of rep: find 4 other persons who need the rep, and run SL in normal mode until first boss (+ maybe the first big demon in 2nd room, easy 24 rep). Lather, rinse and repeat. If you run it with guildmates who are geared like you, you can do that in about 20-25 minutes max, for 700 rep each time. You will quickly get into a rhythm and just chain pull. If you can get a pally tank, all the better (and quicker). You should be able to get 2k rep per hour very easily. Ok, given where you start that's still 10 hours of SL, but it's perfect for raid backup and it's so easy you will even have ample time to chat
I'm curious if there's any conclusive data regarding how much those first +20 feral combat skill rating affects damage? I went through a ton of posts in this thread, as well as several other sources (Tokks' pages), and the main thing I've learned about it is that it's a huge deal to get that +20, but I couldn't find specific information about all the effects of it.
Some stuff I read was talking about .4% hit, crit, and chance to avoid getting dodged/parried/blocked, but that doesn't seem *that* amazing. Parry and dodge should be irrelevant as dps, and while the rest is nice, it doesn't seem like it's game breaking nice. It also wouldn't put you at the hit cap from ~6.2%.
So I'm guessing I'm wrong on that, if someone could clarify it, that'd be appreciated.
Im pretty sure I did the calculation for this exact change several days ago. At lower gear levels it may not be worth it, but fully raid buffed it definitely favors the off set pieces compared to full Malorne.
Originally Posted by Morthis
I'm curious if there's any conclusive data regarding how much those first +20 feral combat skill rating affects damage? I went through a ton of posts in this thread, as well as several other sources (Tokks' pages), and the main thing I've learned about it is that it's a huge deal to get that +20, but I couldn't find specific information about all the effects of it.
Some stuff I read was talking about .4% hit, crit, and chance to avoid getting dodged/parried/blocked, but that doesn't seem *that* amazing. Parry and dodge should be irrelevant as dps, and while the rest is nice, it doesn't seem like it's game breaking nice. It also wouldn't put you at the hit cap from ~6.2%.
So I'm guessing I'm wrong on that, if someone could clarify it, that'd be appreciated.
Thanks.
The rogue/warrior weaponskill discussion has the relevant data. You have a 9% chance to miss on a level 73 mob. 5 Extra weapon skill would be the same as attacking a level 72 mob which would only have a 6% chance to miss. Once there is greater than a 10 point difference between your weaponskill and the mob's defense skill there is a big jump in miss chance.
Further it adds extra crit vs higher level mobs (not sure on the #s though since it hasnt been fully tested yet) and reduces the chance they can dodge you (which is relevant in DPSing, since mobs can dodge even with you behind them).
Actually with a 10% difference you don't really need much time to establish that it's been fixed.
In bear form pretty much all my crits were hitting for more than twice even my largest regular hits.
I'm pretty sure RED is as they described it (223%) rather than another 1.03 multiplier (226% ish) though, but didn't really test that conclusively.
I appologize for asking this once again. But i only want to be the best druid i can be.
Is the 4piece tier 5 set bonus more affective than the 2 piece tier 4 set bonus, in terms of maximizing my dps. Assuming that i will not be tanking during the encounter.
I tried using the search feature but i am having a very hard time finding any posts to help me find my answer.
Any help you gentlemen can provide would be greatly appreciated
I appologize for asking this once again. But i only want to be the best druid i can be.
Is the 4piece tier 5 set bonus more affective than the 2 piece tier 4 set bonus, in terms of maximizing my dps. Assuming that i will not be tanking during the encounter.
I tried using the search feature but i am having a very hard time finding any posts to help me find my answer.
Any help you gentlemen can provide would be greatly appreciated
No its not, the only thing that gets even close is the 4 piece T6 bonus.
More RED/Predatory Instincts data: I can't share the WWS reports (don't think the guild would want me to share even anonymous ones), but here are my Shreds and melee attacks from two Tidewalker kills. One was last week, one was this week. I'm pure cat DPS on Tidewalker the whole time, and I have the RED and 5/5 Predatory Instincts. (Obviously, I made a few gear improvements between kills, but those two factors didn't change.)
Shred (this week) Shred (last week)
Landed Norm Crit Landed Norm Crit
Nb 81 81 59 Nb 95 95 60
Avg 1178 1178 2727 (x2.31) Avg 1145 1145 2616 (x2.28)
Max 1380 1380 3112 Max 1276 1276 2888
Melee (this week) Melee (last week)
Landed Norm Crit Landed Norm Crit
Nb 313 163 231 Nb 321 184 252
Avg 222 252 569 (x2.26) Avg 222 248 497 (x2.00)
Max 306 306 705 Max 267 267 534
No its not, the only thing that gets even close is the 4 piece T6 bonus.
I'm not sure if that's strictly true any more, due to the comments further back. Someone mentioned that getting a tick from 2t4 reset the energy tick timer, which means that the bonus almost halved in effectiveness if true.
I'm still pretty sure it's better than the 4t5 bonus alone, but not entirely sure on whether it would outweigh it with the stat benefit of upgrading the pieces to t5. I'm almost certain that 4t6 would eclipse 2t4 though. It certainly needs remodelling if the way it works has changed (can anyone confirm/deny it?).
Since we just entered BT / Hyjal I’ve been thinking about tweaking my dps-gear and instead of comparing one item to another on a specific slot I'd like you to have a look at the whole build.
What I took into account was:
- 2 pieces malorne for the set bonus
- more weight into agility
- getting close to 142 hit (with sockets it would be 141)
I used to be tanking a lot, but dps has become more important, even though other classes do more dps, I feel the need to do my best. (For example Hyjal, you can go tank in your tank gear during the waves and you’re able to switch gear before the boss appears)
I’ve seen some builds being posted here... what would you go build if you had access to the first easier bosses in Hyjal and BT to gear yourself up for the harder ones?
I used Emmeralds list most of the time and when finished I fed all the stats into Lolaans excel sheet, which said, I could do about 1.200 dps raid buffed.
Another question is about armor penetration. It seems that people are divided or don't know enough about the usefulness. When we did trash-farming in Black Temple (the loots were rolled) I got lucky on [Choker of Serrated Blades] , though I know that armor penetrate does scale up with you’re dps (the more you do the more useful it is) I’m still hesitating including it.
More RED/Predatory Instincts data: I can't share the WWS reports (don't think the guild would want me to share even anonymous ones), but here are my Shreds and melee attacks from two Tidewalker kills. One was last week, one was this week. I'm pure cat DPS on Tidewalker the whole time, and I have the RED and 5/5 Predatory Instincts. (Obviously, I made a few gear improvements between kills, but those two factors didn't change.)
Shred (this week) Shred (last week)
Landed Norm Crit Landed Norm Crit
Nb 81 81 59 Nb 95 95 60
Avg 1178 1178 2727 (x2.31) Avg 1145 1145 2616 (x2.28)
Max 1380 1380 3112 Max 1276 1276 2888
Melee (this week) Melee (last week)
Landed Norm Crit Landed Norm Crit
Nb 313 163 231 Nb 321 184 252
Avg 222 252 569 (x2.26) Avg 222 248 497 (x2.00)
Max 306 306 705 Max 267 267 534
I tried this before and other's were right to critizise it. You can't really get an accurate reading from a live raid. There are so many debuffs and buffs that have an effect on your damage (sunder stacks, ff, bs, cor, trinkets, ...).
I did a long enough test in the blasted lands under constant conditions to verify it's been fixed (2000 hits).
Regarding 2pcT4: I can't say for sure yet but as far as i understand it, your energy tick gets resettet but you get a partial refund of the previous tick. So overall, you're getting the same energy amount as before.
Since we just entered BT / Hyjal I’ve been thinking about tweaking my dps-gear and instead of comparing one item to another on a specific slot I'd like you to have a look at the whole build.
What I took into account was:
- 2 pieces malorne for the set bonus
- more weight into agility
- getting close to 142 hit (with sockets it would be 141)
I used to be tanking a lot, but dps has become more important, even though other classes do more dps, I feel the need to do my best. (For example Hyjal, you can go tank in your tank gear during the waves and you’re able to switch gear before the boss appears)
I’ve seen some builds being posted here... what would you go build if you had access to the first easier bosses in Hyjal and BT to gear yourself up for the harder ones?
I used Emmeralds list most of the time and when finished I fed all the stats into Lolaans excel sheet, which said, I could do about 1.200 dps raid buffed.
Another question is about armor penetration. It seems that people are divided or don't know enough about the usefulness. When we did trash-farming in Black Temple (the loots were rolled) I got lucky on [Choker of Serrated Blades] , though I know that armor penetrate does scale up with you’re dps (the more you do the more useful it is) I’m still hesitating including it.
This list looks pretty solid. Replace the weapon with the S2 gladiator weapon and replace one of your rings with Shapeshifter's signet. This frees up some hit rating and allows you to use the Treads of the Den Mother for boots. T5 legs are slightly better than Skulkers. Trinket choice is arguable, though I prefer Crystalforged trinket to Hourglass since I cant rely on hourglass procs when timing things. The neck from Kael'thas' orb quest is slightly better than the Mithril chain as well.
I'd personally switch to T5 gloves/pants (there's not a lot of difference between those slots slated for tanking and for DPS), if not for the DPS upgrade, then for the utility and survivability. Probably the best slots to upgrade to T6 when you get them, as well. Depending on whether you like on-use trinkets or not, you can switch your Hourglass to Crystalforged/Bloodlust brooch, or DST if your guild has been lucky with them. TODM are a little better in the boot slot, and you can enchant those with 12 agi or cat's to make a perfect hybrid boot (and regardless, I bet you'll see enough of them off trash where you'll have more drops than feral druids, if you want stam on your tanking pair).
This does drop your hit rating quite a bit, but lets you get Shapeshifter's Signet, which decreases to-be-dodged as well as lowers the amount of hit rating to the cap.
I'd also like to know the druid math on armor penetration. I know it's only "80% useful" because of our bleeds, but then again AP is about 2/2.7 = 74% useful per itemization point, and crit rating/hit rating are also worth less per itemization point.
How to use Skulker's Greaves and Edgewalker Longboots
Greetings everybody =)
I'm a feral druid, level 70, and i looted the Skulker's Greaves in Karazhan (Skulker's Greaves - Items - World of Warcraft). I wonder how should i socket these legs. I suppose for dps, but with what gems and armor kit ?
Currently, i wear both for tanking and dps the Forestwalker Kilt (Forestwalker Kilt - Items - World of Warcraft), with two +12 stamina gems, one +4 agi/6 stam, and the +40 stamina/12 agi armor kit. It's 37 strength, 42 agility, and 88 stamina which is important for more survivability in cat form in several encounters (aoe, etc.)
My stats in cat form are, self-buff: 9800 health, 2700 ap, and 33,4% critics. So how can i use the Skulker's Greaves ? Should i put in two +8 strength to boost the +64ap of these legs, (less raw power than the strength of my forestwalker) and one +8 agility (and ignore the socket bonus), or two +8 agility to increase my crit rating and one +8 strength, or maybe three +8 agility ? And for the armor kit, should i add to these legs the +50pa one (which is 25 strength without our talents increase), or the +40 stamina one (that add also 12 agi which is important in cat form) ? If i use these pants without the 40 stamina leg armor, i lost 700 health in cat form (9100 self-buff), compare to the forestwalker kilt, that is huge.
Otherwise, my hit rating will go from 75 to 100, without the shapeshifter signet that i'll buy soon. Is it worth it to change my zierhut's lost treads for the Edgewalker Longboots, as it seems that i'll lost some raw power, but gain some hit that i'll not need ? If it's the case, what gems should i put in these boots ?
I'm a little bit lost, so thank you for your advises =)
Well there are two situations I currently deal with.
- First one would be:
Tanking and dealing damage without the ability to switch armor, for this I'm aiming to get the full set of T5. (Instead of 4xT4 + T5 legs)
- Second one is pure damage:
Thats the one I posted above.
At the moment I am perfectly setup with my tanking gear and the improvements I want to make to that set, is to deal more damage when switching into cat form, without compromising on my ability to tank.
My damage gear should be highly specialized and since I will use T5 for tanking, these parts won't be available for that set, because it will have enchants and gems on it, that contribute to that.
First thing I will do, is get [Shapeshifter's Signet] since I learned today, that these 20 points in feral combat skill rating free up 3 of 9% hit chance I want to achieve. Which means I can have alot more agi or other, nicer things on my armor.
10/02/07, 8:33 AM
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