• squiffy

Idol.

Then Bloodlust Brooch, working on the AC ring now.

 

Boevis

I like having to watch my dps, it means I'm doing my job right, and have made at least decent gear/gem choices (please don't mention my yellow gems in my dps shoulders, wtb living ruby)

I bought Tank Ring, Tank Neck, Idol, and healing stuff.

 

Vykromond

I bought the idol first, then the tank neck, Bloodlust Brooch, the DPS cloak, the tank ring, and then started on healing stuff.

 

Whitemane

Actually I found it the other way around due to how special attacks work with crit. I went from having all +8 Str gems in my gear to having all +8 Agi gems in my gear. I'm up to around 39% crit or something with only motw.

What I found was the shred, mangle and pretty much all my special attacks would have a significantly lower crit percentage than what my stats said. At the same time my normal melee crit % was around where it should be.

That experience seriously pissed me off, several times I'd run around with 26-27% crit rates on my specials while my sheet said 40%+

I'm not 100% sure how yellow attacks and crit works, there was a post earlier but as I had already given up on playing a feral at that point I didn't really bother studying it. All I know is that my switch from Str -> Agi was a disappointment.

 

Ravorion

Ive browsed a bit trough this thread and im curious exactly how the hitrating discussion is concluded now. Is the general thought that 8.6% to hit is whats needed for feral druid to not miss boss levels or does this only apply to lvl 73 mobs ? Does it only apply to normal white dmg or also special damage ? Or is the research still ongoing ?

 

Dalamar

8.6 is the magic number for both standard melee and specials.

 

Husyor

On that spreadsheet, I was looking at the hidden columns and was wondering why there are block and parry columns. Shouldnt they be ignored if we are behind the target using shred? Also is this for level 70 targets or 73 ?

Edit: After playing around with it and realizing my numbers were coming up funny, I realized you have the crit rating at 15.8 where as it should be 22.1. Oh and when I was messing around with the formulas, I think I also changed it so when you were figuring out the glance for the crit, you didnt multiply the agility by 1.03 from Sotf. But as far as i know the rest looks ok, good job.

 

Nanahanna

This is all calculated for a lvl 73 target.

Updated the sheet, fixed those issues. Also added buff selection for buffed section, but kings is still calculated for everything, everywhere. I should be implementing some stuff for the new armor ignoring items.

http://files.filefront.com/Shred_Rip.../fileinfo.html

 

Tierce

Coming back to the discussion on the Crystalforged Trinket (since I reached the rep to buy it today) was the math above taking into account that the +7 weapon damage does not increase the damage for rip since it is not actually an AP gain? Looking up I know we converted the +7 weapon damage into an AP equivalent to compare it, but the comparison can't be exact since rip will not benefit at all from the +7 weapon damage, but would from the AP on a trinket like Bloodlust Brooch. Trying to decide if I should bother picking it up.

Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

 

Larisroth

Well, given that it's pretty much free, I'd pick it up and test it out yourself That's what I'm going to do tonight when I hit the required rep.

Working out an approximate AP value for +weapon damage would be quite useful though, especially as there are other items like the jewel-crafted neck that could be useful when concentrating on dps.

The feral druid is a different beast altogether.

 

Boevis

Yes, the first set of calcs is just +7 damage, you'll notice no rip damage is added.

The other calculations are my brief attempt to find how much AP it's worth, Emmerald and other use +1 dmg = 14 AP, which I proved wrong, it's no worse than ~11.14 AP with an Enh Shaman present (12.25 without) becoming more valuable as crit increases.

Just to save the question later, picking a random crit % of 40% (high raid buffed) puts +7 dmg as adding 348.945 dmg per 20s cycle. +81 AP (with Enh Shaman) adds 347.835 dmg, so +1 dmg ~ 11.57 AP with raid crit % (12.73 AP if you don't have an Enh shaman)

Yes, I'm not including dodge or glancing, whatever.

 

Valerian

This seems pretty on par with the results I've seen using Lolaan's spreadsheet. It puts the trinket at almost exactly on par with bloodlust brooch.

 

Vykromond

I feel like an idiot, but I just can't find any information on whether the Crystalforged Trinket and Bloodlust Brooch share a cooldown. Can anyone help? If they do share a cooldown, I gather replacing HotU with Crystalforged would be a bad idea. If they don't, it would probably be a good one.

A tank, Vykromod.
Will he ever parry them?
Surely he can't block.

 

Trazhenko

If Druid specials are rolled the same way rogue specials are(roll for avoidance, roll for crit), the observed crit rate should only match across attacks that landed, whereas the observed crit rate for white attacks should match across all swings.

Dropping from 40 to 27 is more than I would expect, but it's not outside the realm of being flat out unlucky. Back when we were raiding Naxx, I parsed patchwerk kills with as low as 40% backstab crit, when it should have been nearly 70. Several of our rogues were routinely seeing 55% where it should have been 65%, and the 2-roll system just doesn't explain a gap that big, but then occasionally we'd have good days too.

 

HaklePrime

They are both considered 'offensive' Use: effects, so yes, they cannot be popped at the same time. Gotta wait for the duration of one before popping the next.

Oddly enough, though not too much so considering the effects 150 Agi have, Badge of Tenacity is considered an 'offensive' Use effect, and as such, can be used at the same time as Moroes', Scarab, and I would assume one of the "increases health by X" trinkets.

 

• sadris

Non-offensive trinkets do not share cooldowns with anything.

 

Tierce

Ok, thanks for that clarification, I couldn't quite decipher it from all the walls of numbers above.

And Hakle, no more mentioning of the badge, it's too painful.

Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

 

Husyor

Just curious, you said you fixed those issues, was I correct in assuming the block and parry for the shreds needed to be corrected?

 

aurae

Out of curiosity, how many raidgroups are actually letting cats DPS? Are there any cats here who have a fulltime DPS role? Of those who are part offtank/part DPS, what is your proportion of DPSing to offtanking?

 

Whitemane

If any guild has a feral druid in their raid and they're not putting him up as one of the first offtanks, shoot the raid leader. Druids are excellent offtanks in that they are able to tank just fine with some good armor items equipped and then switch into cat while still preserving some decent dps.

The proportion depends entirely upon the encounter. On most trash I'd guess the druid would be tanking though.

We have a feral druid in the raid usually, but it's not me.

 

• Daboran

We run nearly every raid with 2 Ferals and 1 dps Warrior plus 1 or 2 main tanks

We are probably melee-heavy, but it's simply stupid to ignore the fact that you get a very good offtank along with top10 dps with the same raid place. On top of that you get innervates and more combat rez availability. It also makes trash insanely easy to have that many ofttank-capable classes at your disposal.

The important thing here is, no Druid should be so closed minded as to insist on a dps-only role - you can never justify a place on those grounds alone unless your melee truly suck.

 

Morghus

I'm dps 95% of the time or so, abouts. I OT on trash and encounters like Magtheridon where there are minor mobs to kill before the main target. Largely the same as Daboran, we run 2 ferals and 2-4 warriors in different roles, and I can only chime in agreement with the rest he says. Unless you do stupidly high dps, and is completely irreplacable as damage, you're of the most benefit to a raid as an OT every now and then. I can tank decently in dps-gear, and for encounters like Magtheridon, where killing the first mobs really quickly is extremely good, my threath-output is a huge boon.

It should be added that if you're that closeminded I don't think you have much to do in a raid, you'll be more of a liability than a bonus in that people will expect more than dps from you, and you're not delivering it.

 

aurae

At least up to the karazhan level, my dmg meters are showing that my feral druid, when allowed to focus on DPS, is very capable of performing very well -- normally #1-#2 in karazhan, even though kara probably knocks off quite a bit of druid DPS due to all the bleed-immune mobs. No, our melee do not suck, because I get similar results when pseudo-PUGing with (well-geared) friends from other guilds in heroics.

No druid should "insist" on a DPS role, I agree that's just fantasy. But at least up to & including kara, I can't see why anyone shouldn't take a feral druid in a mainly DPS+utility role, akin to a shadow priest. For SSC and above, well, I'm all ears.

Even if the DPS may be a few percent lower than an equivalent rogue, the overall benefit of losing 1 rogue and gaining LOTP +crit and group heals, an innervate, battle rez and clutch heals makes it a no brainer. Feral druids are like the shadow priests of melee groups to me, you always want at least 1.

 

Boevis

Ditto.

Our average 25 has a MT Prot warrior, OT Prot Warrior, OT Druid (me), another feral, 1-2 more warriors, and 2-3 rogues. Where we currently are, only Outdoor Bosses, Gruul (and a few kara bosses) put a druid in a fulltime DPS role, we do well enough to justify our spot as pure DPS when it happens (Pure DPS meaning we aren't tanking anything, we still innervate/brez when it's needed) iLotP has saved many a life (our paladins are cowards and don't judge light 90% of the time >.<)

 

Benita