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Old 09/16/07, 8:05 PM   #751
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Honestly, why the hell not? They design so much redundency into other class itemization (Bracers for instance - Solarian/Rage/Gorefiend are all very specifically Rogue Designed and all within 2-3 months of progression of each other)

As for "creative but crappy" the trinket I just designed there is a 262 AP equivalent (using the str=2.73 agi=2.94 hit=1.9 dmg=12) for a sustained DPS fight that requires no out-of-melee time. It's very powerful for a feral, and not complete crap for the DW classes.

Why do we have to suffer through "very powerful for rogues (Agi/AP/Hit) or warriors/shaman(Str/Cri/Hit), and 'not too bad for feral'" when there's only 11 feral drops in all of raiding (3 weapons, neck, 2 cloaks, 2 rings, boots, 1 really bad idol) not counting the rep/token items.

Last edited by Boevis : 09/16/07 at 8:10 PM.

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Old 09/17/07, 1:04 AM   #752
The Grog
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
I'm just saying that of all the physical damage classes, druids get the least from armor pen.

Goes warrior, shaman, hunter, rogue, druid so far as I know with a decent gap between hunter and rogue and rogue and druid. Rip isn't a massive fraction of our damage, but it's not insignificant and is a much bigger fraction than anybody else really has.

I'd dearly like to see a token system on trash for druid, paladin, and shaman offspecs.

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Old 09/17/07, 1:15 AM   #753
Junpei
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Shadowsong (EU)
At the most you are looking at 30% of total damage done from Rip, right?

So, in effect -armor rating is working for 70% of our total damage. Thats not a proportion to be sniffed at when it comes to increasing the raw damage output.

It's the same sort of debate as the stats vs weapon damage one, you either increase your rip damage by a decent margin or increase other damage sources by a lesser margin. Generally your net gain is going to be the same either way and from there it comes down to personal preference and item balance.

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Old 09/17/07, 1:53 AM   #754
Larisroth
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Thaurissan
Yeah 70% isn't too bad, but only in comparison to other dps stats, rather than compared to other classes.

In the end it's the same old problem. None of these new stats and only a few of the old ones are good for feral dps. Those same stats are of only middling value for other classes.

Until they change that or itemise directly for cats, we're still going to be stuck with using random epics scattered from amongst all sources and tiers of itemisation.

The feral druid is a different beast altogether.

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Old 09/17/07, 4:14 AM   #755
dukes
Bald Bull
 
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Boevis View Post
Honestly, why the hell not? They design so much redundency into other class itemization (Bracers for instance - Solarian/Rage/Gorefiend are all very specifically Rogue Designed and all within 2-3 months of progression of each other)

As for "creative but crappy" the trinket I just designed there is a 262 AP equivalent (using the str=2.73 agi=2.94 hit=1.9 dmg=12) for a sustained DPS fight that requires no out-of-melee time. It's very powerful for a feral, and not complete crap for the DW classes.

Why do we have to suffer through "very powerful for rogues (Agi/AP/Hit) or warriors/shaman(Str/Cri/Hit), and 'not too bad for feral'" when there's only 11 feral drops in all of raiding (3 weapons, neck, 2 cloaks, 2 rings, boots, 1 really bad idol) not counting the rep/token items.
I wasn't pointing at the trinket you designed as being "creative but crappy", I was merely saying that taking that kind of outlook of design when everything now seems to be so min-maxed is a bad thing to do. Trinket design also seems to be very "anti-stat" oriented, so I doubt it would even be considered.

As for the outlook on trinket design, that's how it's always been. Look at the trinkets in BWL or Naxx, they're broad design based rather than individually tailored for one class/spec to gain the majority out of them, and that seems to be the way Blizzard have gone. I'm glad that they've gone for the "one part passive, one part active" type trinkets as it introduces more variability into DPSing. I'm not saying that the rest of our itemisation isn't pretty shit (which to be fair it is comparitively to some other classes) but that in terms of trinket design if you want to be realistic it's never going to happen.

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Old 09/17/07, 4:55 AM   #756
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
They don't need to add druid trinket drops to any boss, i'd be sufficient if they fixed the existing druid trinkets so they are actually useful.

I honestly can't believe anyone would complain - druids would be happy with ashtongue 2.0 and/or root 2.0 and rogues/warriors/hunters would have one less class to worry about when a dps trinket drops.

On a sidenote: We were pretty lucky with our Tsunami Talisman drops (had 8 or so) - however when we killed Leotheras yesterday and it dropped again, there were still about 6 dps classes who wanted it badly - so yeah, trinket drop rates in tbc are pretty horrible (it isn't even better for casters/healers).

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Old 09/17/07, 5:54 AM   #757
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
They never really put in much effort in itemizing non class-specific trinkets (well, class specific ones are flawed in general too), hence the fierce competition for trinkets because some of them are so much better than others that even non min-maxers will not take the clearly inferior ones.

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Old 09/17/07, 7:25 AM   #758
spartakos
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Genjuros (EU)
Rings

I am currently using a'dal's command and Ancestral Ring of Conquest i think its time to change the first one. Any suggestions about rings?

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Old 09/17/07, 7:40 AM   #759
HaklePrime
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Tuhalu View Post
ramenchef, DST will be worse than the trinkets I listed with all the nerfs it is getting in the upcoming patch. So if you don't have it now, don't bother getting it is what I'm saying. For classes with higher white damage, it's still the best, just by not as much.
Even after the nerf in 2.2, DST is still the single-most powerful physical DPS trinket in the game. If you use 2pc T4, it is better by an even larger margin. It's certainly stronger than Madness, regardless of gear, well, unless you have zero hit/feral combat skill rating.

DST/Tsunami is the best sustained DPS combination currently for druids, followed very closely by DST/Crystalforged, assuming raid-buffed crit levels of 45% or higher, and capped hit/FCS rating. My model also assumes that you have less than 3 seconds of downtime between CD->Use of the Crystalforged.

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Old 09/17/07, 8:33 AM   #760
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by spartakos View Post
I am currently using a'dal's command and Ancestral Ring of Conquest i think its time to change the first one. Any suggestions about rings?
we really can't help you until we see your other stats. Updating your name so we can look at your armory will be a good start. Assuming you're hit capped, those two rings are good choices. However, if you're not hit capped, Shapeshifter's Signet in place of A'dal's will be a good upgrade

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Old 09/17/07, 8:37 AM   #761
onkl
Von Kaiser
 
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Brick
Undead Rogue
 
No WoW Account (EU)
[Ring of Lethality], if not hitcapped.

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Old 09/18/07, 6:21 AM   #762
Livueta
Glass Joe
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Olon97 View Post
Hit cap with just shapeshifter's signet: 6.0% or 95 hit rating.
I've been lately trying to improve my kitty setup, including hitting the sweet spot of hit%/FCS. Last time on Void Reaver I was running with Shapeshifter's Signet and 105 hit rating (6.66%...) and WWS parse shows one missed autoattack. Any idea about what might've caused that?

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Old 09/18/07, 6:39 AM   #763
dukes
Bald Bull
 
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Livueta View Post
I've been lately trying to improve my kitty setup, including hitting the sweet spot of hit%/FCS. Last time on Void Reaver I was running with Shapeshifter's Signet and 105 hit rating (6.66%...) and WWS parse shows one missed autoattack. Any idea about what might've caused that?
While powershifting you'll inevitably get a default swing or two in. It's probably that you missed a swing while in caster form (as FCS will do nothing and you may not have your weapon skills leveled much).

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Old 09/18/07, 7:09 AM   #764
HaklePrime
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by dukes View Post
While powershifting you'll inevitably get a default swing or two in. It's probably that you missed a swing while in caster form (as FCS will do nothing and you may not have your weapon skills leveled much).
You actually get 1 instant white attack every time you shift up, so long as you haven't shifted more than once within the swing timer of your weapon. It is one of the primary reasons that your'e not technically 'losing' a white attack while powershifting.

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Old 09/18/07, 8:29 AM   #765
Farstrider
Back in teh house
 
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Farrstrider
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by spartakos View Post
I am currently using a'dal's command and Ancestral Ring of Conquest i think its time to change the first one. Any suggestions about rings?
Can we knock this sort of post on the head now? The armory has a perfectly good "find an upgrade" feature, I'm sure it's just as helpful as this site.

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