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Old 09/20/07, 12:30 PM   #781
Allev
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
The big problem is not when there's a piece of gear that one spec of one class wants. It's when that piece of gear is so bad that it's not even worth using in many situations. See BWL trinket, Hydross trinket, all expansion feral tanking idols, perhaps the Ashtongue trinket (not a drop but still), Pillar of Ferocity... Heck, it took a massive revision for our tier sets to be balanced in a worthwhile manner. If an item is only useful to the undergeared/improperly geared, it shouldn't be in a raid instance.

But, this derail already has its own thread over in general discussion.

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Old 09/20/07, 2:30 PM   #782
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Item Integration is much more practical than diluting a already crappy lootable that PvEers have. Heart of the Wild working on AP for cat form rather than strength will fix the loot hole considerably, and making a high DPS weapon with Strength and Agility that are only active in Feral Forms will further help the undesirability of additional feral weapon dropping in raids.

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Old 09/20/07, 4:39 PM   #783
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
I doubt anyone would complain for more items via the crafted recipe drops/rep vendor way. Why aren't they doing that? It's so easy and doesn't step on other people's toes at all - if we ignore the DKP meta game for a moment here (and this is hardly something that should stop Blizzard from doing it).
That is the one way of doing it (via items).

The second way is related to something we talked about a looooooooong time ago, so maybe some people remember it.
The point was about Bear/Cat hybrid items which basically all our Tier items are. I didn't think it was that great of an idea (and for weapons it is asisine, sup Pillar of Ferocity?) but I came to terms with it. I would still appreciate special Cat and Bear items but I understand that doing this avoids cluttering up the loot tables.
Bear form scales exceptionally well with stats like armor, agility and stamina already and this is why hybrid Cat/Bear items work at all. Let's face it, if they itemized properly for bear (i.e., increase Stamina, swap Agility with Strength and so on) we'd put other tanks out of their jobs. Like I said, that is because of all the scaling modifiers they gave Bears.

Now to finally get to the point: Why aren't they doing this for Cat? Where are the scaling mods for Cat? HotW is outdated in it's current form as mentioned above - I am talking about stuff that scales from Rogue stats. You know, stuff like "Increases your Agility/AP by X% while in Cat form".

If they did that, it would not only help to reduce loot problems because then there would only be "Feral leather" (Bear/Cat hybrid items) and "Rogue leather" which now works just as well for Cat because of the new modifiers. It would also give Ferals item options for every slot which aren't outright subpar as they are now.

Last edited by Tyvi : 09/20/07 at 4:57 PM.

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Old 09/20/07, 4:47 PM   #784
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Liar View Post
I doubt anyone would complain for more items via the crafted recipe drops/rep vendor way. Why aren't they doing that? It's so easy and doesn't step on other people's toes at all - if we ignore the DKP meta game for a moment here (and this is hardly something that should stop Blizzard from doing it).
Frankly speaking if they do Feral stuff right, drops or vendor or rep, no druid will roll on other classes' stuff

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Old 09/20/07, 4:53 PM   #785
Forcei
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Wildhammer
This might seem like a stupid question. My guild is going to be attempting Void Reaver soon and the current strat is to have me tank first since my threat gen is better.
My question is after the deaggro would I be better of staying bear or going cat to try and get my threat back up?

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Old 09/20/07, 4:59 PM   #786
oldmandennis
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Bear because of the multiplier. Rage isn't a problem with all the poundings you take.

Also, its best to have your warrior go first. The question isn't who is #1 on threat, it's who is #2.

You want the threat meter to look like

Warrior
|
You
|
|
Rogues

and not like

You
|
|
Warrior
Rogues

Your offtank warrior will be limiting the rogues.

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Old 09/20/07, 5:15 PM   #787
SS_Keera
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Eredar (EU)
I can't see the point of you beginning, because as druid you can create good thread without getting hit but your warrior buddy cannot.
So he is the limiting factor for your raiddps cause all others have to be at least on the third place in the aggrolist to not get aggro when you are kicked.

Therefore the warrior starting to tank is the better idea in my opinion. *shrug*

And for your question stay in bearform. You shouldn't have much problem with rage or threat generation.

Edit: to late :/

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Old 09/20/07, 5:39 PM   #788
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Druid going second is probably better due to the fact that the warriors cannot build as solid threat despite pounding when compared to the druid's capabilities.

when in cat form, you receive passive -29% threat generation, so unless you're doing like 1.2k dps gear in tank gear (i assume you're wearing that), you will generate less threat than you would have in bear form

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Old 09/20/07, 7:34 PM   #789
Bloodwood
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmourne
A few pages back there was a mention of a debuff filter that could sort out mangle, yet I can't get it to work or it just seems plain incompatible (I suspect using x-perl ui frames could be the cause). Is there any other solution? I've respecced feral after being resto for the past 6 months and it's making my life hell in a new guild with multiple feral druids when I can't tell whether mangle is up or not.

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Old 09/20/07, 7:54 PM   #790
seminarca
Don Flamenco
 
Retired
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
I recently starting using FeralDebuffList which I believe is just a stripped down version of (?) pDebuffFilter. Link to the Cat Druid page in case the direct link dies later.

It tracks Mangle, FF and demo shout/roar/CoW.

Coincidentally, I use X-Perl player/target/party unitframes as well, and have not had any issues getting it to work. I don't use the X-Perl raidframes though.

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Old 09/21/07, 4:50 AM   #791
Dalamar
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by SS_Keera View Post
I can't see the point of you beginning, because as druid you can create good thread without getting hit but your warrior buddy cannot.
So he is the limiting factor for your raiddps cause all others have to be at least on the third place in the aggrolist to not get aggro when you are kicked.

Therefore the warrior starting to tank is the better idea in my opinion. *shrug*

And for your question stay in bearform. You shouldn't have much problem with rage or threat generation.

Edit: to late :/
Heh, I was able to go first and tank the entire thing from 100% to 0% this week. Void Reaver is a lot easier when you don't have to tank swap or have to worry about another tank being second.

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Old 09/21/07, 4:51 AM   #792
Dalamar
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Bloodwood View Post
A few pages back there was a mention of a debuff filter that could sort out mangle, yet I can't get it to work or it just seems plain incompatible (I suspect using x-perl ui frames could be the cause). Is there any other solution? I've respecced feral after being resto for the past 6 months and it's making my life hell in a new guild with multiple feral druids when I can't tell whether mangle is up or not.
NECB works great, I use it to track my debuffs while tanking and DPSing as well as my HoT timers on my alt.

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Old 09/21/07, 5:15 AM   #793
dukes
Bald Bull
 
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
I just have pitbull set to filter debuffs, so that the only things I can see are druid debuffs. You could use DFilter though, which is completely configurable as to what it shows.

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Old 09/21/07, 5:20 AM   #794
Bloodwood
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by seminarca View Post
I recently starting using FeralDebuffList which I believe is just a stripped down version of (?) pDebuffFilter. Link to the Cat Druid page in case the direct link dies later.

It tracks Mangle, FF and demo shout/roar/CoW.

Coincidentally, I use X-Perl player/target/party unitframes as well, and have not had any issues getting it to work. I don't use the X-Perl raidframes though.
Thanks, I've installed it, just need to wait until Sunday night to test it out.

Is there some sort of options menu that can be opened?

Also, I've looked through this thread and found nothing conclusive, is +crit better then +hit? Right now I'm tossing up between putting a 4+ crit/4+ agi gem in Edgewalkers instead of the +4 hit/+4 agi gem I have in now.

Last edited by Bloodwood : 09/21/07 at 5:49 AM.

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Old 09/21/07, 7:36 AM   #795
SS_Keera
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Eredar (EU)
Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
Heh, I was able to go first and tank the entire thing from 100% to 0% this week. Void Reaver is a lot easier when you don't have to tank swap or have to worry about another tank being second.
I bet it was not your first kill where you did tank him from 100-0% without tankswitch, which was the question from Forcei
I suppose you have to "outgear" the fight for a bit to be able to generate that much threat, while being in "tankgear".

We had our firstkill when i was wearing 2/5 T4 and some clefthoof tanking pieces (yeah no attunements). Nevertheless he doesn't hit that hard and tanking him was rather easy from my point of view. The "hard" part is not the tanking imho, its more ranged avoiding the orbs and melee the pounding and get enough dps with that much running around.

@Debuffs: I use Chronometer for this purpose and it serves me quite well. It goes beyond mangle debuff, showing me the duration of every of my "over time spell" (e.g. Demoshout, Mangle, Lacerate...) and when I'm backup healing its also nice to have an overview of my HoTs.

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