[top]235.774 damage

Same cycle but with 7*14

Tyvi · 05/15/07, 8:17 PM

The Feral skill items are awesome. We recently started on Magtheridon and I tank the trash there. I know it's only anecdotal but I swear the trash parries* and resists way too much for their level and they even crush - and they are just level 72. But anyways, I use all my Feral skill items there (Clefthoof Pants, Shapeshifters and Earthwarden) and I feel it helps a great deal.

*for some reason I don't even remember them dodging anything, it's just parrying >_>

Boevis · 05/15/07, 9:49 PM

You remember the parries because of that goddamn annoying tink sound.

Arcane Sparks can Parry. NPC Druids can parry. WTB Parry

Sheldong · 05/22/07, 3:11 AM

This is my first post on these boards, though I have been an unregistered lurker for a while now. A thought came to me tonight while browsing the Blizzard Druid forums.

Credit to Pantone (Mal'ganis) for the original macro located here
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...04545751&sid=1

Similar to Mages using Flame Caps or Destruction potions, shouldn't we be using our potion cooldowns to effectively maximize our DPS?

We can change the macro for cat form to be something along the lines of

/castSequence [stance:3] reset=3 Cat Form, Lifebloom
/stopcasting
/use (Haste Potion/Insane Strength Potion)
/stopcasting
/cast [nostance] Cat Form

(Disclaimer: I'm a macro noob, this looks like it would work, but please correct me if it's wrong)
Do we really need a macro to pot? Probably not, but this is something that will help me make sure I use it on every cooldown

The question I have is which potion to use?

The only two real options seem to be;

Insane Strength Potion
Requires Level 50
Use: Increases your Strength by 120 and decreases your defense rating by 75 for 15 sec.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22828

and
Haste Potion
Requires Level 60
Use: Increases haste rating by 400 for 15 sec.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22838

which provides the biggest dps boost for us?

Myk · 05/22/07, 3:48 PM

Has anyone taken a look at using rake as a CP instead one one of the shreds?

I would think that it would be viable with mangle up. Even as your second CP you should get the full duration. In the proposed Cycle, you 5CP rip for 12 seconds, mangle asap which is also 12 seconds, but with the rip tick delay is ok, then you could rake for 9 seconds, shred, shred, shred...

I don't know where to begin with calculating the dmg/nrg compared to other attacks. Would it just start with the spell amounts, or do you need to factor in stats to be accurate? Also, my understnading was that rip wasn't armor based? Is rake?

Immortal · 05/22/07, 4:15 PM

Rake just does too low damage compared to shred, even if you let it tick for 9 sec. with magle up. So i think no one uses it. And ofc it's not armor based cause it's bleed effect.

Oaken · 05/23/07, 10:47 PM

I try to use rake on fights with lots of interrupts (see Nightbane where you get feared as well as having to run out of the scorched earth) on the premise that a lower dps dot is better than a missed shred but its of questionable value.

Boevis · 06/02/07, 6:39 PM

Just some math for my own sake (and possibly others)
Crystalforged Trinket +7 weapon damage, +216 AP use for 10/60 (but i'll ignore the use for now)
For a 20 second cycle (17 auto attacks, 1 mangle, 4 shreds, rip, a shift and 2 idol switches accounting for 3 auto) Assuming NW and SF.
17 * 7 * 1.1 = 130.9
7 * 1.1 * 1.6 * 1.2 = 14.784
4 * 7 * 1.1 * 2.25 * 1.3 = 90.09

[top]235.774 damage

Same cycle but with 7*14

98 AP. Assuming Enh shaman as well.
17 * 98/14 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 143.99
98/14 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.6 * 1.2 = 16.2624
4 * 98/14 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 2.25 * 1.3 = 99.099
98 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.3 * .24 = 36.99696

[top]296.34836 damage

20% difference, just to disprove the concept that +damage * 14

AP.
Dropping the AP by 20% to 78 AP = 235.869, hey, what do you know. And just to throw it in there, the use is an average of 216*10/60=36 AP (with a 10 second duration, make sure you use it with a rip to maximize)

So in comparison to Bloodlust Brooch, it's equivalent to 6 AP higher on the equip, but 10.3~ lower AP on the "use" That's pretty solid, but as someone that already has the Brooch, I won't be switching since I can potentially get 2 Rips at the +278 AP in the 20 seconds of Brooch, but can only get 1 Rip at +216 with the Crystalforged.

Alandriel · 06/02/07, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

So in comparison to Bloodlust Brooch, it's equivalent to 6 AP higher on the equip, but 10.3~ lower AP on the "use" That's pretty solid, but as someone that already has the Brooch, I won't be switching since I can potentially get 2 Rips at the +278 AP in the 20 seconds of Brooch, but can only get 1 Rip at +216 with the Crystalforged.

The only reason I'm farming one up (and I do have the Bloodlust brooch) is because the Use: has a 1 minute cooldown. That gives me two rips at +216 vs. 1, and with more fights like Leotheras/ Morogrim where I move, the shorter CD is preferable to me.

Boevis · 06/03/07, 6:17 AM

Well, you can get 2 rips off in the 20 seconds of the brooch if you get an ooc proc or a crit, so in the end it's a wash.

I should add, that assuming an Enhancement Shaman like I did is the difference. Without an Enh Shaman around, the Crystalforged is equal to ~86 AP, making it 14 better than the Brooch on the equip, and still 10 worse on the Use.

So with Shaman it's worse by 4, without shaman it's better by 4. Considering it's basically free after a month, that's a pretty good trinket.

Tyvi · 06/03/07, 6:45 AM

I have the Brooch as well, and the Hourglass. I was actually going to replace the Hourglass with Crystalforged Trinket but I'm not sure if this is such a good idea anymore. How would you rate the Hourglass in comparison the Crystalforged one?

Valerian · 06/03/07, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by Liar

I have the Brooch as well, and the Hourglass. I was actually going to replace the Hourglass with Crystalforged Trinket but I'm not sure if this is such a good idea anymore. How would you rate the Hourglass in comparison the Crystalforged one?

Well assuming the hourglass has a 45 sec internal cooldown (which seems to be the case as seen from the cooldown thread), I believe the numbers have the Crystal forged as slightly better than the Hourglass

Boevis · 06/03/07, 4:38 PM

Just a brief "emmerald-like" rating (using 1.6 ap = 1 crit rat, 2.5 ap = 1 agi)
Crystalforged: 122
Bloodlust: 118
Hourglass: 118
Core: 85
Alchemists: 81
Bladefist: 75

I'm not going to touch the haste ones or the other procs (-armor, poison damage, etc)

Kobal · 06/03/07, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

... and 2 idol switches accounting for 3 auto...

Could you please elaborate on this?

I am assuming that you switch between the +mangle dmg idol and the +shred dmg idol. But if the switch really costs you even one auto-attack, is it worth it? Or have I misunderstood you?

Boevis · 06/03/07, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kobal

Could you please elaborate on this?

I am assuming that you switch between the +mangle dmg idol and the +shred dmg idol. But if the switch really costs you even one auto-attack, is it worth it? Or have I misunderstood you?

That's definitely the assumption a lot of people have been making, I'm really in no position to argue without a lot more testing. Which I'll go ahead and do today.

Interesting thing about missing attacks, in my 15 minute runs attacking Haalum, one would assume I'd see 15 * 60 = 900 attacks, however, every time I'd be a couple attacks short. I know there's the delay in combatlog sometimes, but in the end you would expect to see if evened out (one takes longer than expected, another is faster than expected) It wouldn't surprise me if we had an actual 1.01 attack speed or something along those lines.

Because swaps don't show in combatlog, I had to standardize how I did the swap. 5 CPs, 40 energy or ooc proc, Swap, FB as soon as GCD was done.

6/3 14:50:50.953 Your Mangle (Cat) hits Bash'ir Arcanist for 478.
6/3 14:50:50.968 You crit Bash'ir Arcanist for 400.
6/3 14:50:51.843 You attack. Bash'ir Arcanist parries.
6/3 14:50:52.921 You hit Bash'ir Arcanist for 152. (glancing)
6/3 14:50:54.046 You crit Bash'ir Arcanist for 409.
6/3 14:50:55.640 You crit Bash'ir Arcanist for 408.
6/3 14:50:56.531 You have slain Bash'ir Arcanist!
6/3 14:50:56.531 Your Ferocious Bite hits Bash'ir Arcanist for 1109.

6/3 14:50:28.890 Your Mangle (Cat) hits Bash'ir Arcanist for 518.
6/3 14:50:29.296 You gain Clearcasting.
6/3 14:50:29.515 You crit Bash'ir Arcanist for 435.
6/3 14:50:31.265 You hit Bash'ir Arcanist for 160. (glancing)
6/3 14:50:31.812 Your Ferocious Bite hits Bash'ir Arcanist for 1203.
6/3 14:50:32.109 You hit Bash'ir Arcanist for 200.
6/3 14:50:32.390 You have slain Bash'ir Arcanist!

6/3 14:50:08.453 Your Mangle (Cat) hits Lightning Wasp for 453.
6/3 14:50:08.859 You gain Clearcasting.
6/3 14:50:09.062 You attack. Lightning Wasp parries.
6/3 14:50:10.906 You hit Lightning Wasp for 165. (glancing)
6/3 14:50:11.781 You hit Lightning Wasp for 167. (glancing)
6/3 14:50:12.375 Your Ferocious Bite crits Lightning Wasp for 2488.
6/3 14:50:12.750 Clearcasting fades from you.
6/3 14:50:12.765 You hit Lightning Wasp for 177.
6/3 14:50:13.109 You have slain Lightning Wasp!

I think it's pretty clear that the swap does delay your auto attacks. Considering how impossible it would be to time your swaps exactly after an auto, I feel it's safe to call a swap -.5 swings each. So swapping between Rip, Mangle, and Shred idols makes you lose 1.5 auto attacks, a minimum of 300 damage raid buffed I'd say. Of the 3 idols, the Everbloom (shred) is the only one capable of adding more than that much damage (unless I'm mistaken on the Rip idol, is it 4*5 cps=20 damage, or 4*5cps*6tics = 120 damage? I don't have it, so I can't test it) so swapping is actually not at all ideal until you get the White Stag from Supremus in BT (+94 AP when you mangle)

Time to vendor the Wild (mangle) and Ursoc (lacerate), and not worry about getting the Feral Shadows (rip). God I love using level 60 blues as the best feral items sometimes (Brutality, MoT)

Feorthas · 06/03/07, 7:40 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

Time to vendor the Wild (mangle) and Ursoc (lacerate), and not worry about getting the Feral Shadows (rip). God I love using level 60 blues as the best feral items sometimes (Brutality, MoT)

At least wild is at least half decent for tanking when you consider the +Threat on Mangle; I know about +63 threat/mangle is moderately trivial but it's still something.

[top]235.774 damage Same cycle but with 7*14

[top]296.34836 damage 20% difference, just to disprove the concept that +damage * 14

[top]235.774 damage

Same cycle but with 7*14

[top]296.34836 damage

20% difference, just to disprove the concept that +damage * 14