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10/02/07, 5:31 AM
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#991
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King Hippo
Tauren Druid
Outland (EU)
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Originally Posted by dukes
No battle shout. No shaman. Did you have Blessing of Might + Salv (and if not, get 10 minute ones off your paladins instead of wisdom/light or similar). Neither natural shapeshifter or any real use of Powershifting.
T4 level DPS gear...
About the WWS: Hosted parses (i.e. those uploaded direct to wowwebstats.com) have a lot more information than those generated and hosted separately.
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My T4 gear is geared to tanking. I had no choice but to put 15 resi on my chest to reach Crit immunity. The gems I did not look at for ages but it should not be a problem to regem to anything I want. I used the flask because it was our first time there so I did not want to chain chug agi pots if we wiped over and over. Until we start getting more Vanquished stuff I cannot totally gem my T4 for DPS though. Sadly right now Defender is very very rare for us, I have 1 item, while Hero drops multiple times every run with Champion just behind.
As for the trinkets, the Badge of Tenacity is there until The hourglass of the Unraveller drops, which I have been putting off because I truly hate CoT 5mans after farming them to death on alts =).
I wanted to T2 mace. I was 400 points away from getting it. Then my nephew bought me items I did not want or ever will need (moonkin and healing arena gear), he was just messing around - he is only 6. I talked to a GM and he said I was shit out of luck. 4 weeks later a guildy gets his points back after making a mistake in buying ret gear insteald of Holy. I repetition to say "hang on, this isn't fair!" And a GM replies saying yes it is possible, but now it was too long ago so you are shit out of luck. I really am poor at PvP and I am not going to bug more friends to carry me for another 8 weeks in PvP for the mace. Just cannot bring myself to do it.
I can see that there really is just a massive gear gap. I will definately see if I can work on regemming my T4 to be a bit more DPS oriented (as after all 8agi is fine as a tanking stat also). I just am now really tired of these older instances, like Kara and BM with their random chance to drop items. My rogue did nothing but black morass to reach exalted and I still have never seen the hourglass drop. It is very disheartening, especially as it is just dull now.
Oh and in that parse, yes I was in the tank group. So I got no buffs. However the boss seemed lightly armoured, and in fights where I actually DO get Salv and A shaman, I seem to do around the same DPS anyways. I also thought that powershifting currently returns very minimal benefits due to the energy tick reset. Without it being worth it to powershift, I also didn't believe natural shapeshifter to be worth the points. However my spec is very old, I did not look for a while to see if I could change it somewhat to improve DPS, I will check it tonight and compare it around.
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There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.
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10/02/07, 5:58 AM
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#992
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Back in teh house
Farrstrider
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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I had the same thing on my parses actually, very high miss rate, 10-13% on a lot of stuff, despite having around 70 hit rating. I'm going to focus on it a little bit more and see how I go, it seems an easy way to boost dps by 10%, frankly.
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<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
<Zyla> If there's gonna be a dick in the room besides my own, i'd rather it have to be my brother's. You know that kinda sounds bad all typed out like that,
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10/02/07, 6:20 AM
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#993
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Piston Honda
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I understand the mangle/shred/rip cycle and such but I've never really powershifted before, or heard an explanation of how to get the most out of it. Can I get a basic explanation? Do you just shift out/shift in when your energy runs dry (probably 4th combo point?) How often do you find yourself doing it? I tend to use my mana on fights where I dps (tranquility, battle rez, innervate, a quick self-regrowth or shifting to bear to taunt/mitigate unavoidable incoming damage...) so I'm just skeptical on how valuable powershifting is for overall DPS gains, or rather if it is a wise use of mana to do so. I'm not in Hyj/BT though so I don't know how fights are there...
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10/02/07, 6:20 AM
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#994
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Proudmoore
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Originally Posted by Farstrider
I had the same thing on my parses actually, very high miss rate, 10-13% on a lot of stuff, despite having around 70 hit rating. I'm going to focus on it a little bit more and see how I go, it seems an easy way to boost dps by 10%, frankly.
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10-13% pure miss rate includes dodge (assuming no parries since you're attacking from behind)
70 hit is a bit low, even with Shapeshifter's. Boosting your dps will be quite easy as you fill those holes.
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10/02/07, 6:23 AM
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#995
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Proudmoore
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Originally Posted by Farstrider
What fights should I really be looking at to have a decent gauge of dps? I see you guys all saying you do such-and-such sustained dps, but I just don't really get a chance to dps in a sustained manner at all. We're working on Kael - so for example:-
Lurker - I dps Lurker then tank the melee adds - not sustained dps
Hydross - I dps Hydross then tank nature/frost adds - not sustained dps
Morogrim - I dps Morogrim then help to gather up adds - not sustained dps
Leo - probably the only fight where I actually get to dps
FLK - usually tanking an add then dps - not sustained dps
Vashj - tank the Naga as they run in, dps Vashj in phase 1 & 3 - not sustained dps
Al'ar - phase 1 tanking then ember tanking in phase 2 - no dps at all
VR - Yes I get to dps but his high armour and immune to rip means low dps
Solarian - dps Solarian then pick up the agents when they spawn in bear form - not sustained dps
Kael - obviously not sustained dps.
We don't really run Mag/Gruuls any more.
Will I start to see a change to this in BT/MH? I mean I don't mind much really, I feel pretty useful, but it's tricky to look at a WWS where I maybe did 500dps on a typical dps/add tank fight and actually see much value in that.
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Naj, Gorefiend, Reliquary, and Maybe mother shaz are going to be the fights that you have a chance to do pure DPS. But pure DPS really isn't the reason to bring a druid today
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10/02/07, 7:17 AM
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#996
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Glass Joe
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+hit
95 hit rtg = 6.02%
+ 20 feral combat skill = hit cap.
Once I made this happen, my dps became competitive with the rogues and locks. I'm still learning energy management, and have been using:
Calculator
Agil vs. Str
I feel pretty content if I'm top5 on the meters...a feral druid simply should not out dps most other classes (so long as their gear,skill,knowledge is comparable)
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10/02/07, 7:26 AM
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#997
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Back in teh house
Farrstrider
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Yeah I do understand that David, my point is that I'm just trying to have something to compare to. My sustained dps on Void Reaver is only 513dps, which seems very low, although as mentioned earlier he has high armour and is rip immune, and I was also a bit lax at using trinkets properly on that fight. I'm just trying to make sure I'm doing as much as I can and not slacking really - I understand my value to the raid in other ways.
FCSR seems to be a big thing to give up, particularly when having so many attacks dodged, I just don't know if I can actually handle that grind to exalted LC. In fact, I do know, and I can't.
[e] Also, guys, you're making good points, and I'm not trying to have a go, but tidy up your punctuation/capitalisation etc before Kaubel smacks you round. 
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<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
<Zyla> If there's gonna be a dick in the room besides my own, i'd rather it have to be my brother's. You know that kinda sounds bad all typed out like that,
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10/02/07, 7:33 AM
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#998
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Never, Mags. Never!
Human Death Knight
Turalyon (EU)
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Well, see it like that. SL and Sethekk Halls are two very interesting instances on their own. SL teaches you to multi tank properly but it is kinda long (which means more rep though) and SH is pretty fast and one of the easier heroics. The fact that the mobs are running around with low armor is a big bonus since it's always fun seeing big crits in bear.
And with all the new badge rewards they promised in 2.3 you will be using your time efficiently if you work on that, too.
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10/02/07, 8:00 AM
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#999
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Back in teh house
Farrstrider
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Well I can do at least 1 SH run to get my epic flight form sorted I guess and see how painful that is. It's more that I scarcely really have time to log on for enough raids let alone run heroics really, but the new heroic rewards certainly are another reason to get up off my butt & do some at the weekend or something. And as far as multi tanking goes, Shattered Halls did that just fine, thanks. 
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<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
<Zyla> If there's gonna be a dick in the room besides my own, i'd rather it have to be my brother's. You know that kinda sounds bad all typed out like that,
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10/02/07, 8:23 AM
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#1000
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Bald Bull
Dukes
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Originally Posted by Mistaya
Can I get a basic explanation?
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With the changes to the energy tick system, powershifting has changed a bit recently.
The basic premise is that you shift out and in when you're low on energy (<10 for decent gains). Furor will give you 40 energy straight up, so you end up gaining around 30-40 energy dependant on what you started with. It always used to work like this, with a "perfect" energy gain as long as you shifted in between energy ticks, making the maximum of 40 energy gained very easy to do.
Over the course of two minutes or so, you could easily get around 180 energy (5 shifts worth, minus a few per shift for "imperfect" shifts) if you were paying attention. 180/42 = 4 extra shreds (168) with a bit left over for dodges/etc. 4 shreds at around 1500 damage each = 6000 extra damage without crits, or ~13000 damage with (50-100 DPS or so), plus 4-8 combo points (probably another 30-40 dps on it's own).
The system has changed slightly to reset the energy tick to when you shift back into form (i.e. it's now an individual energy tick instead of a global one). This means you have to be quick on shifting form, or else you'll waste some more energy than before. Depending on how good you are at timing it and how much energy you started with, you should gain anywhere between 20 and 35 energy or so. Lag inherent to the game along with reaction time makes it vitually impossible to be gaining the "maximum" 40 energy that you might have in the previous system. On average I estimate the gain to be around 25 per shift (assuming normal amounts of lag = loss of 10 energy, plus 5 energy wasted on average from before the shift), instead of the previous 35. It's a pretty big change, but it's still worth doing if you do it right.
If you find you have mana problems, you can always use mana pots (I carry a stack or two of the combat mana pots - they stack to 10 and are free with battleground tokens). If you want to skimp a bit, make sure you have a healthstone (saves the 900 mana for regrowth), get Int and Spirit buffs, and try and combine shifts for things like innervate/combat res with your cycle/powershifts, instead of just doing it blindly. You'll also find that shifting to bear in BT/Hyjal is pretty useless, as either the things hit so hard you'll get gibbed in dps gear, or you'll get gibbed before you can react. Having faith in your healers should be an obvious thing, and (as I've said in previous posts) you shouldn't ignore stam as a DPSer (after all, you don't do any damage whilst hugging the floor).
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10/02/07, 8:33 AM
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#1001
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Druid
The Forgotten Coast
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Originally Posted by Farstrider
What fights should I really be looking at to have a decent gauge of dps? I see you guys all saying you do such-and-such sustained dps, but I just don't really get a chance to dps in a sustained manner at all. We're working on Kael - so for example:-
Lurker - I dps Lurker then tank the melee adds - not sustained dps
Hydross - I dps Hydross then tank nature/frost adds - not sustained dps
Morogrim - I dps Morogrim then help to gather up adds - not sustained dps
Leo - probably the only fight where I actually get to dps
FLK - usually tanking an add then dps - not sustained dps
Vashj - tank the Naga as they run in, dps Vashj in phase 1 & 3 - not sustained dps
Al'ar - phase 1 tanking then ember tanking in phase 2 - no dps at all
VR - Yes I get to dps but his high armour and immune to rip means low dps
Solarian - dps Solarian then pick up the agents when they spawn in bear form - not sustained dps
Kael - obviously not sustained dps.
We don't really run Mag/Gruuls any more.
Will I start to see a change to this in BT/MH? I mean I don't mind much really, I feel pretty useful, but it's tricky to look at a WWS where I maybe did 500dps on a typical dps/add tank fight and actually see much value in that.
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Same thing here, I just don't go all out dps ever. I am always tanking as you listed above, the only boss i can recall going all out dps is Leo, and may be VR if we have three warrior tanks on.
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10/02/07, 8:38 AM
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#1002
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Piston Honda
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Ah, this means I'm really going to need to get an energy tick watch mod I suppose... I always carry mana pots as well as health pots but I admit I tend to forget my healthstones even when I'm carrying them. I have them all on the hotbar too.
Don't feel bad Farstrider I still need to finish my LC rep as well, figured I'd do it in heroic Sethekk (which is easy) and have a chance at that cool mount every run. I run with 120'ish hit rating currently in DPS gear though so I'm over the 7% mark without it. I really can't wait till I can start picking up T5 so I can re-enchant and socket T4 for DPS... The Kara epics just aren't as good for the most part.
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10/02/07, 8:56 AM
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#1003
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Carebear
Night Elf Druid
Silvermoon (EU)
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Originally Posted by monstor
Same thing here, I just don't go all out dps ever. I am always tanking as you listed above, the only boss i can recall going all out dps is Leo, and may be VR if we have three warrior tanks on.
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I noticed a huge change in my role during a raid, from TK/SSC to BT/Hyjal. Prior to BT & Hyjal I was almost always some sort of dual-role during fights, either tanking then moving to DPS (Karathress, Magtheridon) or switching between the two multiple times (Hydross, Lurker, Leo etc). I geared and gemmed/enchanted accordingly and had numerous different gear setups depending on the fight.
Now in BT/Hyjal it seems a lot more clear-cut, I'm either a bear or a cat, haven't encountered a single fight yet where I switch out like I did pre-T6. (RoS feels more like three fights to me, and I wear cat gear, but I guess that could count.) I suppose it makes life easier, but also a bit more boring :P Still, it's a nice way to get some 'proper' DPS time in on fights like Teron and Naj'entus, with none of that pesky bear stuff getting in the way.
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10/02/07, 11:14 AM
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#1004
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Piston Honda
Tauren Druid
Karazhan (EU)
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Originally Posted by Farstrider
FCSR seems to be a big thing to give up, particularly when having so many attacks dodged, I just don't know if I can actually handle that grind to exalted LC. In fact, I do know, and I can't. 
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I'm working on my LC rep as well and it indeed seems endless - actually it already seemed endless to get to Revered for the epic flight form (best thing you can get in the game by the way). However there's a nice way to do it quickly, even though it's quite unrewarding except in terms of rep: find 4 other persons who need the rep, and run SL in normal mode until first boss (+ maybe the first big demon in 2nd room, easy 24 rep). Lather, rinse and repeat. If you run it with guildmates who are geared like you, you can do that in about 20-25 minutes max, for 700 rep each time. You will quickly get into a rhythm and just chain pull. If you can get a pally tank, all the better (and quicker). You should be able to get 2k rep per hour very easily. Ok, given where you start that's still 10 hours of SL, but it's perfect for raid backup and it's so easy you will even have ample time to chat 
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