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Old 10/09/07, 2:21 PM   #1141
Jini
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Aeliel View Post
A bunch of stuff
I'll attempt to answer the first set of bulleted questions as best I can.

1) This was answered previously in this thread. Follow your cycle. The small increase to raid DPS is approximately equal to your loss by having a less efficient cycle. Alternatively, have a bear mangling.

2) This was previously discussed in this thread. If you have 5cp and a Rip ticking and are at 81 energy, Shred. If you have less than 81 energy, wait.

3) If you have 4CP from two yellow attacks, I wait for 81 energy and Mangle/Rip.

4) I have no experience Maiming on a 25man so I wont comment on this point.

5) I agree the best strategy is to wait to have just enough energy for the bite. Shred and bite have approximately the same returns on energy and its not like you have anything else to do with those CPs.

Second list:

1) Looks like the thing to do is to get the Shapeshifter's. After the next patch [Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation] are going to be amazing for DPS, I would do what I can to work those in to your set.

2) I believe there is math previously presented in this thread to quantify the value of 2 piece T4. At this point the only thing that is commonly accepted as competing for damage output is considered to be 4 piece T6. Unfortunately for you the T4 shoulders and hat are the best pieces to keep out of the set for the 2 piece bonus.

3&4) Sorry, I don't have time for these right now.

As for Idols, if the rest of the melee group greatly out performs your DPS, I would think strongly about using the raven goddess over everbloom.

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Old 10/09/07, 2:49 PM   #1142
Taiowa
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sisters of Elune
Originally Posted by Valerian View Post
For DPS cycle, the keys are:

- Dont Shred if Mangle isnt up
- Never let your energy tick above 100 (i.e., dont lose energy ticks)
- Never overwrite a rip that is ticking
- Aim for 4 CP rips. The scaling doesnt change between 4 and 5 CP and you lose more wasting a combo point than the static gain from going to 5 CP from 4.
Additionally, if you don't already have a DOT timer, get one. It really helps with Mangle and Rip uptime. I use Chronometer and place the bars right under my target frame, so I can see at a glance how many combo points I have and how much time is left to go on my Mangle and Rip. It's invaluable.

Another tip: make a macro that binds your Crystalforged Trinket to Rip. The extra attack power every minute really does make a difference. (Maybe it's just me, but I would never remember to use my clicky trinkets if I didn't have them macroed to something.)

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Old 10/09/07, 3:29 PM   #1143
Valerian
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Taiowa View Post
Additionally, if you don't already have a DOT timer, get one. It really helps with Mangle and Rip uptime. I use Chronometer and place the bars right under my target frame, so I can see at a glance how many combo points I have and how much time is left to go on my Mangle and Rip. It's invaluable.

Another tip: make a macro that binds your Crystalforged Trinket to Rip. The extra attack power every minute really does make a difference. (Maybe it's just me, but I would never remember to use my clicky trinkets if I didn't have them macroed to something.)
Good advice here. An energy tick timer is useful too. Energy watch works well.

What macro are you using to use your trinket and then Rip? I remember trying to make a similar macro (for when I was grinding) but it never seemed to work.

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Old 10/09/07, 3:51 PM   #1144
Taiowa
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sisters of Elune
Originally Posted by Valerian View Post
What macro are you using to use your trinket and then Rip? I remember trying to make a similar macro (for when I was grinding) but it never seemed to work.
If I remember correctly, it's:

#showtooltip Rip
/use Crystalforged Trinket
/stopcasting
/cast Rip

If you have other clicky trinkets that would be useful (Core of Ar'kelos, etc.), you can add additional "/use [name]" lines before the /stopcasting, and it'll attempt to use them too.

Note that this macro will display an error message and play a sound if the trinket is on cooldown. There's a way to suppress the error, but I've never bothered setting it up myself and I can't find it on a quick Google search now.

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Old 10/09/07, 3:56 PM   #1145
• Fogbug
๏̯͡๏)
 
Fogbug's Avatar
 
Undead Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by falkon2 View Post
An even wilder idea; make Haste affect energy regeneration? :U Rogue DPS would go off the charts, though.
Haste already does affect energy regen for combat rogues, though

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Old 10/09/07, 4:38 PM   #1146
squiffy
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Blackpatch View Post
Some ideas for revising Rake:
o renew all bleed effects on the mob
Make rake renew the mangle debuff if it's active.

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Old 10/09/07, 4:51 PM   #1147
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Yeah, like i would use Rake then ... even Mangle does more DPE than Rake.

It has to either a useful debuff or they have to seriously up Rake's damage .. or both.

Last edited by Malazaar : 10/09/07 at 4:57 PM.

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Old 10/09/07, 5:07 PM   #1148
Garanthir
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eldre'Thalas
I like the idea of extending the usefulness of Tiger's Fury by making it CP based. Could it be based off the SnD model? Or would the timing need to be revamped? I need to think that out. Definitely would change up the DPS cycle.

As far as Rake goes maybe modify it to inflict damage at the end of it's duration (CoD type thing) or a chance to proc something like a movement impairment or casting speed debuff.

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Old 10/09/07, 5:14 PM   #1149
squiffy
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Blackrock
Oops, been a while since I used rake, thought it's energy cost was much lower.

Ignore me, carry on

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Old 10/09/07, 7:00 PM   #1150
Larisroth
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Thaurissan
Haste does effect energy regen if you're wearing 2 piece tier 4.

Changing the FAP scaling could effectively turn our 1H attack into a 2H attack, so yes it could fix the white damage /haste problem, but only if they drop the damage scaling on our main specials. It can address the overall scaling issue as well.

WF in bear might have been broken when specials procced it. As it stands now it'll only proc off mauls and white attacks. Which are perhaps a bigger percentage of our threat than prot warriors, but not noticably. Warriors get about a 5% buff to their threat from it, but even a 10% buff wouldn't be overpowered.

The feral druid is a different beast altogether.

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Old 10/09/07, 7:18 PM   #1151
Junakit
Carebear
 
Junakit's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silvermoon (EU)
For the Maim question (4), I only maim on caster trash mobs where the interrupt is valuable - basically only Kael trash, though I've been doing it on Bloodboil's trash when not tanking if there aren't many interrupters in the raid. It's a total DPS gimp, but on something like Kael's centurions, it can make a huge difference as otherwise you'd have to run out and/or die -- as would other melee. I can't really think of other situations I use maim in BT/Hyjal though, for something like the shadowbolt mobs in Hyjal the melee have interrupts covered already.

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Old 10/09/07, 7:42 PM   #1152
Bloodwood
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by SS_Keera View Post
Agility was always the better gem choice for dps then strength. It just gets an additional buff. So why do you want a refund?

Regarding Windfury: There you have the problem that you need to be aware of bearform. Because getting windfury in bearform would imho make druids really overpowered in terms of threat generation.
Combination of having low AP (due to wielding Earthwarden) and not being 100% sure of the optimal gems at the time. Not that it really made much of a difference before this.

Can't warrior tanks use windfury as well? I've never seen any nerf posts about it, plus you'd never have a shaman in the MT group anyway. If they can restrict trees to be the only druid form that can use pots, then I don't see why they can't restrict windfury to cat form.

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Old 10/09/07, 7:53 PM   #1153
Filmnio
Banned
 
Tauren Druid
 
Alleria
newb question sorry but, for cat DPS what is the consensus on rip CPs? is 4 or 5 more DPS?

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Old 10/09/07, 8:02 PM   #1154
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Filmnio View Post
newb question sorry but, for cat DPS what is the consensus on rip CPs? is 4 or 5 more DPS?
4 or 5, depending on which you reach first

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Old 10/09/07, 8:39 PM   #1155
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
You can't say 4cp or 5cp is superior, for it depends on your ap/crit ratio. With low crit and high ap, 4cp is superior, with high crit, 5cp becomes better.

In almost every case (of highend gear) that i evaluated in that case, i found 5cp to be the superior cycle. A main factor is that with high crit values you have cycle lengths that are shorter than 12 seconds with the 4cp cycle.

I'd recommend testing out both for yourself. If you use 5cp and you notice that there is a 3-4 second gap between your rips, switch to 4cp.

Edit: It also depends on whether you use mangle or not. If you are only shredding, a 4cp cycle is superior in all cases (providing you don't fall under 12s).

Last edited by Malazaar : 10/09/07 at 8:45 PM.

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