I had this problem too. Wowhead has it with 2 of each, but reports from live seem to say 4.


Could someone confirm if http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32410 is correct?

It is 2 of each, I have one.

Thanks for the clarification! Now if one would only drop on my realm...

Is there a haste (weapon speed) limit? I know on the character sheet it will continue to reflect stacking hastes however, is that actually reflected in your attacks?

I've read on multiple occasions that 0.80 is the lowest your weapon speed can actually be, regardless of what your character sheet says. Is this the case? If it is, then would a relentless earthstorm diamond be a better choice for a combat dagger rogue who has a dragonspine trophy? (My reason for the question is that the trophy + SND puts many offhands under this 0.80 and mainhands faiirly close as well.)

Please educate me.

Get shaman. Get really fast low dps weapon for off hand. Have really slow high dps main hand.

Hit mob with S&D up until trophy comes up then get shaman to hit bloodlust. Check combat log for time between low damage off hand attacks.

Also get druid and bloodlust them to check if kitties attacks go below 0.8.

So is this definitely a SSC drop? Is it from trash or bosses?

I did this and the conclusion that there appears to be no cap, or if there is it is much lower than 0.80.

Here's an excerpt:

Weapons were Dragonmaw (2.7) + Searing Sunblade (1.3) 300hit rating - During this block of combat I had the attack speed increases from:

Slice & Dice (30%)
Dragonmaw (20.19%)
Dragonspine Trophy (30.95%)
Heroism (30%)

At this time I believe my character sheet represented a 0.49 speed for my offhand weapon, however the actual combat log shows a small range of actual attack speeds from my offhand, which I would have to guess is just latency in the combatlog timestamping?.

[top]OH#

indicates one of the offhand attacks, time between it and the previous OH attack (as indicated by the timestamps, atleast) is in ( )'s

Ive been told there is a cap at .3 speed but havent been able to get enough haste to try it. I have had my 1.4 speed offhand as low as .47 with DST mongoose heroism drums and a haste pot.

[Edit] I'm blind.

Even at 1 ppm, this gem is godly... this matches 12 seconds of haste in 2 minutes and tops the use effect of the abacus and we all now that the haste on the abacus makes it a really good trinket

Plus, on trash packs the duration of just 6 seconds probably works in your favour... I have too many wasted seconds of mungo and stuff because the mob is already dead

After using it for awhile, I'de say it is 1ppm item.

Still the best meta gem out there even with a low proc rate.

Just figured I'd contribute to the discussion on Thundering Skyfire Gem. Tests were done on a tanked Servant of Allistarj and swstats tells me that I got 0 misses through out.

Test 1
Duel wielding: Glad Shanker (with mongoose) and Blade of the Unrequited (no mongoose)
No other haste procs.
Auto attacking
Hits: 2067
Procs: 47
Time: 28:53
Hits/Proc 43.9
Procs/Min: 1.6

Test 2
Duel wielding: Emerald Ripper (no mongoose) and Blade of the Unrequited (no mongoose)
No other haste procs.
Auto attacking
Hits: 2294
Procs: 64
Time: 32:38
Hits/Proc 35.8
Procs/Min: 1.9

Test 3
Duel wielding: Glad Shanker (with mongoose) and Blade of the Unrequited (no mongoose)
No other haste procs.
Using +4 cycles (mutilate spec)
Hits: 2851
Procs: 48
Time: 30:31
Hits/Proc: 59.3
Procs/Min: 1.5


So I'd say thats an average of a 1.6 PPM regardless of the amount of swings.

I assume it does, but anyone know if this procs in Druid catform?

Got mine today, a guildie had the pattern drop in heroic mechanar and it swiftly went to one of my guilds Jewelcrafters. Proc rate seems fairly low from a bit of blasted lands testing and Im prolly gonna test it with procwatch in a bit if i can find a bored healer.

A Rogue in raid reported it to proc three times total for roughly three hours in Serpentshrine. I wonder if there is a stacking issue with DST and this gem?

I freely admit my ignorance on this issue - however, I am still at a loss on how 6 seconds of haste per minute (roughly) provides greater returns versus the 12 agi 3% crit one (especially a combat dagger spec) that adds something on every hit (small crit % increase, AP increase, crit dps increase).

I heart haste with all my...hrm...heart - but 6 seconds per minute just seems a tad shy of "good". Help make me a smarter fellah!

The only thing that could explain how small of an increase there is between autoattacking and using actual cycles in procs would be an extremely long cooldown, 1.2 mins plus?

Is there any other data, besides that which I posted on the PPM? People seem to referring to a PPM that has no reference.

But it also depends on the crit rate of the player. I don't know about the average crit chance of a raiding rogue but for hunters, the haste gem with basic math, assuming it's 1 ppm, proves to be better than the crit gem, but I calculate it with an average of 25% crit chance on raiding hunters. Might be otherwise if someone goes to the lengths to get 30-35% crit. And there's also the issue about too much haste, at least for hunters, if that thing indeed does proc during a dragonspine effect, I wouldn't get 20% increase in dps, I probably would get close to 10% more. Maybe even less. But assuming it does proc in a different time than other effects, it is clearly better than crit gem for hunters with normal crit chances.

Perhaps Kalman will put he ol mathcraft hat back on and try to mathcraft Thundering vs Relentless because I too am wondering whether a 6 second +haste proc every minute is better than a constant 12 agility and an equivalent of 1.5 points of Opportunity.

Rogue Gear spreadsheet (see Rogue Gear Spreadsheet) has a reasonable model of Thundering Skyfire assuming 1 PPM, and finds it to be *way* better. Brief summary of why:

Assume, for the moment, that it only actually procs once per minute (note that if it's actually 1 PPM, it'll proc about 3 times a minute on average - but lets just compute this based on 1 actual proc per minute). That means you gain ~25% haste for 6 seconds - roughly a 2.5% increase of white damage over not having it. On a sustained dps fight, white damage typically encompasses north of 60% of total damage done, so TSD increases your total damage by roughly 1.5% based on damage alone.

In reality, it's going to be somewhat more than that; more haste effects means more weapon attacks, which means more procs - and most rogues these days have several powerful procs (Poisons, Combat Potency, Double Mongoose, and TSD itself, if nothing else. And some will also have Dragonspine Trophy, Hourglass of the Unraveler/Tsunami Talisman/Romulo's Poison Vial, and so on). So it's going to give some amount of extra proc damage as well; hence, actual damage granted could easily be has high as 2%.

Meanwhile, a 3% boost to crit damage is going to increase the damage of ~30% of your white and yellow attacks by 3% - less than a 1% increase, affecting about 90% of your attacks (leaving out damage from rupture, poisons, and other procs) - so maybe a .8% damage increase overall. So in order for Relentless Earthstorm Diamond to be better, 12 agi has to give roughly a 1% damage increase. Grinding some numbers in your spreadsheet of choice will show that this is not the case, by a longshot. As such, TSD winds up being more damage.

Long story short? Haste is really powerful.

I would like to reiterate this question. I know mongoose and other similar enchants don't work in forms; but with the gems that add stun resistance, crit chance, et al working in forms it is definately worth looking into. I don't have anyone on my server yet who can make it, so I'll wait and see if anyone else has any luck.